KAREN DAVILA (KD): Joining us on “Hot Copy” this morning, we have Senator Francis ‘Chiz’ Escudero. Senator Escudero, good morning to you.
SENATOR CHIZ ESCUDERO (CHIZ): Karen, magandang umaga sa iyo at sa lahat ng ating televiewers at tagasubaybay, magandang umaga po. Good morning.
KD: All right, you are a lawmaker that actually gave a concrete recommendation on what to do with Ayungin Shoal. So, let’s start off with your proposal sinabi niyo na nais niyong maglaan ng Php100-M sa 2024 Budget para sa Ayungin Shoal. Ano ang nakikita po ninyong istraktura sa Ayungin Shoal?
CHIZ: Mala-lodging, Karen. Hindi lamang para sa ating mga sundalo, para sa ilang Pilipinong naninirahan din doon. At pangatlo, nabanggit kanina para magkaroon, ika nga, sanctuary o shelter hindi lamang mga Pilipinong mangingisda, Karen. Pati ibang mangingisda o nationality, kabilang na ang bansang China, kung saka-sakaling makaharap sila ng masama o galit na panahon sa mga karagatang ‘yan.
KD: And what happens to BRP Sierra Madre?
CHIZ: Puwedeng hilahin ‘yon kapag nakatayo na ‘yong facility o, hindi man, iwan ‘yon bilang simbolo ng una nating pagtatatag ng ika-nga settlement doon sa isla na pagmamay-ari ng Pilipinas. Para sa akin, Karen, sinusubukan kong disiplinahin ang aking sarili at sana gayundin ang mga opisyal ng pamahalaan tigilan na nating tawaging disputed islands o waters ‘yan, atin ‘yan. May desisyon tayong hawak na nagsasabing atin ‘yan. Hayaan natin ang ibang tao ang tumawag na “disputed islands” pero sa punto revista natin, atin ‘yan. Hindi natin kailangan magpaalam sa bansang Tsina dahil nga atin ‘yan pero wala naman sigurong kakulangan o masama na magsabi tayo sa bansang Tsina.
Demokrasya tayo, Karen, wala tayong puwedeng itago lalo na sa paggastos ng pampublikong pondo. Kaya itong sinabi kong ito, hindi naman ito sikreto hindi tulad marahil ng bansang China, marami silang nagagawa o ginagawa na hindi naman nalalaman ng ibang karatig bansa tulad natin. This is in the interest of transparency we’re not hiding anything; we’re simply expressing our desire to build structures in our territory and giving the President budget cover, appropriation cover in order to do this should he so desire given that he is the chief architect of our foreign policy.
KD: OK. Now but don’t you think China might take this as an upfront to them diplomatically considering there were two supply ships? The first supply ship was actually successful, but it had food and supplies. The second supply ship supposedly had construction materials although that isn’t confirmed yet and that actually didn’t get to Ayungin Shoal. Will this worsen our relationship diplomatically?
CHIZ: Well, alam mo, Karen, nagtayo sila ng istruktura sa teritoryo na atin. Maayos naman ‘yung diplomatic relations natin. Binomba nila ang ilang barko natin. Maayos pa rin naman ang relasyon natin. Pinatawag natin ang ambassador. Nag-file tayo ng diplomatic protest, mapayapang paraan ang ginagamit natin at gayundin din ang bansang Tsina. So far, para sa akin walang veto power ang bansang Tsina sa lehislasyon o GAA o general Appropriations Act na ipapasa ng Kongreso. Presidente lamang natin ang may kapangyarihan niyan at may kapangyarihan din ang presidente sa budget na pondohan o ipatupad ang mga proyektong pinondohan ng Kongreso o piliin niyang ipagpaliban muna ito. Pero kung ginusto ‘yan ng pangulo next year, Karen, kung wala kaming budget cover na ibibigay sa kanya ni hindi niya magagawa ‘yan kaisipan lamang naman na mananatili ‘yan.
KD: OK. What are your thoughts on this particular story? this is an article printed by CNN Philippines that Beijing officials have told them that they submitted a concept paper to the Philippine government which indicates the internal understanding of two countries in handling the Ayungin Shoal? So, you have Chinese officials telling local officials to calm down, but they are asking that there be actions that both countries have to agree on when it comes to Ayungin Shoal. They’ve urged the Philippine to stop what they describe as unilateral actions pending any agreement. Your thoughts.
CHIZ: Para sa akin Karen anumang trust, anumang layunin, anumang gawain na hindi umabot sa putukan, suntukan, barilan o bombahan, anumang uri ng pag-uusap, hindi natin dapat atrasan dahil usapan lamang naman ‘yan. Sang-ayon din sa ating Saligang Batas, the Philippines renounces war as an instrument of foreign policy and pursues amicable, amity and diplomatic and peaceful relations with other nations. Kaya ‘yung komentaryo kaninang binanggit mo ng dating kalihim ng National Defense na sinasabing ba’t tayo makikipagkaibigan, ang paniniwala ko diyan, Karen, puwede nating pagkasunduan at pagtulungan yung mga pwede nating pagkasunduan, yung hindi natin pinagkakasunduan, puwede nating isantabi muna.
Hindi ‘yan rason para maging extreme tayo, ika nga, katulad ng ilang panawagan na mag-boycott daw o i-blocklist daw. Nauunawaan ba natin ‘yung ating sinasabi, halimbawa na lamang Karen, some hard facts, and data. Almost 17%, 16.3%, if I’m not mistaken of total Philippine exports go to China. Almost 33% of total Philippine imports come from China. ‘Yung sa parte naman ng China ang kanilang exports sa Pilipinas ay wala pang 2%. Ang kanilang import mula sa Pilipinas ay wala pang 1% ng kabuuang import at export ng China mula sa buong mundo. Kumbaga magkakamot lamang sila kapag tayo’y nagsabi na “ayaw na naming sa inyo.” Paano kapag sila ang nagsabi nun? Ika nga ni Congressman Salceda na batikang ekonomista, iisa lamang ang mangyayari niyan: tataas ang presyo dito sa ating bansa at papalalain ‘yan ng inflation. Ngayon nagkakasundo tayo sa bagay ng trade. Nagkakasundo tayo sa bagay ng cultural exchanges. Nagkakasundo tayo na may embahada sila rito, tayo mayroon doon, so bukas ang linya ng komunikasyon. Hindi rason para putulin natin lahat ‘yan dahil sa hindi natin pagkakasundo, pagkakaunawaan dito sa West Philippine Sea.
KD: OK. But then what are your thoughts when it comes to for example, the president has already ordered a stop to 22 reclamation projects after the U.S. Embassy actually flagged it as an environmental concern and one of the companies involved was a Chinese state-owned company blacklisted by Washington. So, you do have lawmakers calling on the government don’t give the China state-owned companies the big contracts. When you think about it, ang sabi ni Senate President Zubiri, parang taxpayer daw ang nagbabayad pa doon sa China. What are your thoughts on that, Senator?
CHIZ: Hindi ako naniniwala doon, Karen. Pinigilan ‘yan ng Pangulo dahil sa reklamong nanggaling sa mga Pilipino hindi dahil sa sinabi ng Amerika. Pangalawa, 22 ang reclamation projects na isinasagawa ngayon na ipinagpaliban ng pangulo. Pangatlo, ‘yung Chinese kontraktor na sinasabi ng Amerika ay hindi naman kontratista ng pamahalaan. It is a Chinese contractor of a private company engage in the reclamation project. Anong karapatan naman ng gobyerno o ng opisyal na pagsabihan yung pribadong kompanya, Karen, “Hoy, huwag ‘yan na contractor ang piliin mo, ito ang piliin mong contractor, ito ang gusto ko.” You’re talking of private contracts, Karen, not public or government contracts and there should be a clear distinction between the two.
KD: But do you agree with the fact that when it comes to the DOT, the DPWH, big-ticket projects of this administration, do you believe you have lawmakers saying that we should give it to ally countries, right?
CHIZ: Were not at war with China. Although China is not an ally, very much like half of the countries to the world, we don’t consider them military allies. We still do trade with them. We still have diplomatic relations with them. We have exchanges with them, cultural, educational, or political. Hindi rason ‘yan ulitin ko na biglang mag-alboroto kahit putulin natin na para tayo ngayon yung naghahamon ng away kaugnay ng isang bagay na hindi natin pinagkakasunduan.
Ulitin ko Karen, marami tayong pinagkakasunduan sa bansa Tsina. Mahaba ang kasaysayan ng ating bansa sa bansang Tsina hindi tulad ng ibang mga nanakop sa ating bansa na may pinatay na mga Pilipino, milyon pa nga sa ating kasaysayan. Wala pa namang ginagawang ganoon ang bansang Tsina sa ating bansa base sa ating kasaysayan. Ang sinasabi ko ay marami tayong puwedeng pagkasunduan at may ilang bagay tayong hindi pinagkakasunduan, Isantabi natin ‘yon, huwag nating bitiwan ‘’yung karapatan natin doon, ipaglaban natin ‘yon pero hindi ‘yon rason para, ika nga, putulin natin anumang ugnayan sa bansang Tsina o sinuman na may hindi tayo pagkakaunawaan sa isa o sa ilang bagay.
KD: OK. So given this you’ve made your stand quite clear, and worked with China on issues and areas we can work on because the South China Sea issue and the West Philippine Sea issue are not the only basis for our relationship with China. But when it comes to Ayungin Shoal, Senator, Beijing officials said that they submitted a concept paper to the government asking for a dialogue on how there could be an internal agreement with Ayungin Shoal. Should the Philippines go that far? Because if you do get into an agreement, we are recognizing in some way that we respect that they say it’s disputed. So, this is where the problem lies. What do we do with Ayungin Shoal in terms of our actions?
CHIZ: Actually, Karen, it is disputed on the part of China. On our part, factually-based on the arbitral ruling, that is ours and that is settled from our point of view. Kaya nga pinapanukala ko, Karen na maghain ang SolGen at hihilingin ko sa SolGen ‘yan na petisyon sa Korte Suprema seeking the recognition of the foreign arbitral ruling here in our country. That is an arbitral ruling handed down abroad. Technically it has no legal effect as of yet in the country. Kaya ko gustong gawin ‘yon so as to bind future presidents in so far as this “law” is concerned that that is ours. So, any agreement, any president including this one may or will enter cannot violate that and it would be dimmed void if any sitting president who is the chief architect of foreign policy should waive, let go or forgo the rights our country has over the West Philippine Sea including Ayungin Shoal, including Scarborough Shoal.
KD: That is very interesting. So, when I actually read that proposal, your intention is to make the Hague ruling legally binding in the Philippines so that no matter where the president of a country stands, he cannot violate the Hague ruling?
CHIZ: He cannot sell, he cannot agree out, he cannot sell out and he cannot do anything that violates it because that is part of the law, and if at all Karen, that would be considered a violation of the law and considered I’m going far, far-fetched already impeachable offense by any president. Ang problema nga kasi, kada president—
KD: Yes. Isn’t this clear in the Constitution though? I mean Justice Carpio has quoted it several times?
CHIZ: Which one, Karen?
KD: The part wherein it’s quite clear that you cannot give an inch right or that all resources coming from the Philippines should only be enjoyed by Filipinos.
CHIZ: Yes, Karen. But the definition of national territory in Article I of the Constitution does not specify the West Philippine Sea. It speaks only generically, generally, about the Philippine territory and that’s the reason why a case was filed and a ruling was handed down to clarify that indeed the West Philippine Sea is part of the Philippines. I read someone commented somewhere that the West Philippine Sea, Scarborough Shoal, Ayungin Shoal is not part of Philippine territory and that is only part of our EEZ.
KD: Yes. Let me just, for the viewers, that’s a clip that’s been coming out on social media lately it was I believe 2021 radio interview by former Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile and he states in that interview that the Scarborough Shoal is not the Philippines. OK, your thoughts?
CHIZ: That is part of our EEZ. The question is, Karen, kaya nga “exclusive economic zone” ang tawag doon, exclusive ‘yon sa ating bansa. Kasama ‘yon base sa UNCLOS o United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, kasama ‘yon sa teritoryo natin. Hindi lamang ‘yung 12-mile territorial sea pero pati ‘yung exclusive economic zone. May rules lang na puwedeng dumaan ang ibang barko doon. Pangalawa, Karen, unique ang Pilipinas dahil archipelago ang Pilipinas kung tama ang pagkakaalala ko pinaglaban, sinulong at nanalo si dating Senador, dating Vice President Arturo Tolentino. Siya ang nag-argue sa UNCLOS ng archipelagic doctrine sa United Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea na in-adopt ng UNCLOS.
Unique ang Pilipinas tulad ng Indonesia dahil archipelago tayo. Binubuo tayo ng 7,100 islands, depende kung high tide or low tide, hindi ba? Ang sabi ng archipelagic doctrine, idudugtong mo ‘yong outer limits ng mga isla ng isang archipelago at lahat ng karagatan sa loob nun ay bahagi ng bansa mo.
Kasi ang argumento ni dating Vice President, then Senator Tolentino may mga pagkakataon na may mga karagatan sa gitna ng mga pulo, ng mga isla, ng mga kapuluan sa loob ng ating bansa na humihigit sa 12 miles, na humihigit sa territorial sea, ika nga. Paano naman ‘yon, may international water ka sa gitna ng bansa mo, sa loob ng bansa mo? At kinatigan ito ng karamihan ng mga miyembro ng United Nations at ginawang bahagi ng UNCLOS o ‘yung United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, in fact, there’s a separate article in UNCLOS with respect to the archipelagic doctrine.
KD: So, I’m curious, where do you think was former Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile coming from when he stated that in an old radio interview?
CHIZ: I don’t know, Karen. I hope to see him and have coffee with Senator Enrile soon because he has been inviting me for coffee not necessarily on this topic but I will make to get his thoughts on that when we see each other.
KD: OK. Now let’s talk about oil exploration. There have been several suggestions at this point for the Philippines to already pursue our oil exploration of the Reed Bank. There was a moratorium during former President Duterte’s time and there are talks that we might do it but at one point there were talks we should do it with China but after the incident, this water cannon incident, and others you have the sectors saying the Philippines should just do it. Where do you stand on that, Senator?
CHIZ: Well, number one, I don’t think we have technology to do it. We need to do it with another country that has the technology to do that. Number two, Karen, this was attempted during the time, if I’m not mistaken of former President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo privately, not officially or not by the government. If you remember, a corporation was formed by some big businessmen here in the Philippines and their counterparts in China to jointly explore and see if there is indeed oil in that area.
KD: In the Reed Bank.
CHIZ: Without touching sovereignty issues, without saying that it’s yours, it’s mine, ang kasunduan nila was the Chinese corporation will get permits from their country, the Philippine corporation will get permits from our country and they will jointly explore it for possible oil reserves. When the term of President Macapagal Arroyo ended, I think it was scrapped by former President Aquino but that is one—
KD: Because the argument, I’m sorry to cut you, that the argument of Justice Carpio is exactly that was the problem is, the Philippine government should just contract the private company to help explore but it shouldn’t be a partnership because the Reed Bank is within the EEZ.
CHIZ: That is true, Karen. Again, foreign policy, the chief architect of foreign policy is the president at that time it was former President GMA. And she thought that was a way without giving up Philippine sovereignty rights over the said area to explore, dahil malay mo nga naman kung wala naman laman ‘yan baka kusang loob ng umalis ang China dahil ang lahat tumataya na may lamang resources ‘yan.
Justice Carpio’s position is not wrong to my mind, Karen, but it is a hardline position. Very much like what you said earlier, nagdadala nga lang ng supply binobomba at hinaharang na paano pa kaya ito? So, ganoon din ito, that is a hardline position that will face most likely stuff and stiff resistance from China. We can do all we want but the question is how serious are we at achieving the results we desire. So hindi naman palaging hardline, sometimes you have to compromise as long as you are not giving up or waiving any rights that we have in so far as ownership over these Philippine waters and islands are concerned.
KD: OK. Senator, I wanted to ask you but isn’t that the problem with the Philippines, China isn’t taking us seriously. I mean all these years they’ve already reclaimed islands within our waters now moving closer and closer. Technically, our fishermen have partly lost Scarborough and they’re inching their way towards really Palawan, frankly. So, I don’t know with our actions if we are taken seriously at this point by China.
CHIZ: Well, Karen, let me throw the question back at Philippine authorities there have been several rumors that most of the boulders, sand, and gravel that was used to reclaim Scarborough Shoal actually came from the Philippines. Para sa akin, legally, well at least that’s proof kung talagang galing dito ‘yong mga buhangin at batong ginamit sa pag-reclaim niyan, well, at least that’s a DNA proof na atin talaga ‘yan dahil ‘yong lupaing ginamit ay galing sa Pilipinas mismo. Pero ang tanong ko, ba’t natin pinayagan? Ba’t hindi natin inalam? Dahil tandaan mo, Karen, ang Mainland China ay napakalayo para magdala ng buhangin, bato at graba para punuan at i-reclaim ‘yan.
Maraming mga bali-balita na ‘yan ay galing daw sa Pilipinas mismo. Ang magandang malaman, ba’t tayo hindi seseryosohin samantalang pinayagan nating gawin at mangyari ‘yan habang tinututulan natin. I think we have to look at ourselves in the mirror first before and treat and look ourselves and consider ourselves more seriously about this topic before we can ask other countries to take us seriously. If that is indeed true, ‘di ba malungkot ‘yon, Karen, ginamit ‘yong sarili nating resources para, ika nga, mag-creeping invasion sa ating bansa, sa ating teritoryo.
KD: OK, now moving on to actually putting our money where our mouth is and looking at ourselves. You will be facing the budget soon that 2024 Budget and I wanted to ask you where you stand. The Philippine Coast Guard has said on “Headstart” their intelligence funds is only at Php10-M and yet you have Php10.1-B of confidential and intelligence funds in the 2024 Budget, Php4.5-B with president, the Office of the VP at Php50-M, DepEd still at Php150-M. More civilian agencies asking for intelligence funds and here you are you have the coastguard at Php10-M. Where do you stand on this, Senator?
CHIZ: Let’s distinguish, Karen. Confidential funds may be lodged in civilian agencies, but intelligence funds cannot be lodged in civilian agencies. Intelligence funds only belong to military or uniformed agencies. Number two, in so far as the budget is concerned, I intend to revert to the old provision of the budget with respect to the utilization of both confidential and intelligence funds. In the past, Karen, you needed a proposal and the signature of the president before intelligence and confidential funds can’t be released to a certain degree. It can’t be delegated but it still requires the signature of the president that’s why it’s treated uniquely. Hindi siya subject to COA, hindi siya subject sa pagbusisi ng Kongreso in so far as the specific who found this fund intelligence or confidential was spent in the previous year kaya ‘yung check at balance kinakailangan hanggang sa pinakamataas na opisyal ng bansa. In fact, the law before, the budget before even requires not only a proposal but an actual report. Mayroong balik dapat, may sukli, may ROI dapat ‘yung ginastos na pera. Ano ‘yung resulta nung intelligence gathering, hindi namin kailangan makita, hindi kailangan makita ng publiko, pero dapat may ganung report. That was discarded in the past—
KD: That’s a form of auditing already, at least.
CHIZ: ‘Yon na ‘yon pero hindi titignan ng COA yung laman nung dokumento pero dapat may dokumento. As cursory reading would suffice na okay may report, dito ginastos. I think we should revert to that. In so far as the Philippine Coast Guard intelligence funds are concerned, the president can actually augment after the budget is passed, but Karen, we will look into. I will look into the fact if we can augment it not from capital outlay personnel or maintenance in other operating expenses but from the intelligence budget and or confidential budget already proposed by the DBM para within the same amounts na lang ang pag-usapan natin. Huwag tayong magbawas ng tulay, magbawas ng school building, magbawas ng hospital, magbawas ng social services para dagdagan yung intelligence funds ng Coast Guard. Dapat manggaling din ‘yan sa kabuuang intelligence at confidential funds na pino-propose ng Executive branch.
KD: But do you now feel then that these confidential funds, as you’ve said, these confidential funds can get into civilian agencies, do you feel that it’s become more of a political accommodation in nature. For example, I saw a record wherein former Vice President Leni Robredo didn’t have confidential funds. Binay actually started with Php5-M, increased a little to 10, 20 and I think by the end of his term as VP, literally, was already zero and now we have the Vice President Office, which is this is not personal against Vice President Duterte, but you have the office now at half a billion, why do we need this?
CHIZ: Well, I would like to see the arguments as well, Karen. What this is for? When it was first proposed, they said it was for national security purposes, because drugs, because recruitments in so far as the New People’s Army, the CPP-NPA is concern was being done. But after a year, I would like to compare. If you look at the data of the Armed Forces of the Philippines, Karen, the numbers of CPP-NPA have been dwindling. So why the need to increase this in order to protect our students from suppose said recruitment?
KD: Yes. That’s the Php150-M. Go on.
CHIZ: Yes, at that time. Next, if we are going to increase it so what else is it for? If you are talking drugs, I would like to know what are we protecting our students from, and remember, Karen, this is DepEd, this is not CHED. You are talking grade 1 to grade 12. Ang alam ko, pagpasok ng recruitment kung mayroon man ay nasa higher educational institution so sa college. Hindi naman sa elementary at high school. Kahit ‘yung droga, nasa college din ‘yon marahil at hindi sa elementary at grade school. So, I would like to see the effectiveness of the utilization of the initial Php150-M and why we are increasing it to Php500-M. Although they are not duty-bound to say how and where they’ll spend it because that will be done next year they should at least justify it to Congress when they present their budget for it and I intend to ask those questions.
KD: OK. Senator, the last question on this particular area, how should we empower the Philippine Coast Guard, the Navy, and the Armed Forces? But more on the Coast Guard since, clearly, its our territorial waters that are in question each and every time?
CHIZ: Well, the reason, Karen, while we’re utilizing the Coast Guard more very much like China is, because it’s a civilian agency. The last thing you want is to increase military presence in that area, thereby stoking war rumormongers to flame, to ignite the fire, so to speak, in this area. That’s the last thing we want. I believe that’s the last China would want too.
There is only one way, Karen, to allocate more funds for the Philippine Coast Guard, if you are utilizing them as our instruments of sovereignty, exerting our sovereignty in that area. Ika nga, put your money where your mouth is.
But let me add one last thing, Karen, I commend Sec. Manalo for his statement earlier and the budget deliberations. In fact, I already said that I prefer that the president and or the foreign affairs secretary who is speaking with respect to the government’s policy, attitude and what will they do in this area, instead of letting every other executive official express his or her own opinion about this matter. It’s charged as it is and the last thing we want is to add fuel to the seeming burning anger not only of Filipinos, I presume, the national fervor of China too with respect to this issue.
Remember, Karen, our government has its own domestic audience, us to cater to. China too has its own domestic audience to cater to and it is the ideal equilibrium or balance between our relation with them and their relation and our relation with our respective populations that is making it more difficult to handle and or do or not do certain things.
KD: OK. Now, my last question is it confirmed that you will really propose the Php100-M for Ayungin Shoal because, frankly speaking, with a budget of more than Php5-T, a Php100-M is quite doable or would you still want the president or Malacañang to ask for that or you put it in the budget anyway?
CHIZ: I will put it in the budget as an appropriation or budget cover. In fact, Senator Jinggoy said it might not be enough/ I said I would have been happy with that but if you want to increase it, you have my blessing. Senate President Zubiri also expressed support yesterday that he will also help in carving out from the budget. This is not on top of the budget, Karen, we will just carve from the budget, the existing proposed budget an amount to do this.
KD: OK. We are going to take a quick break but Senator Chiz Escudero. Please stay with us. We are going to talk about more when we return, ROTC, the NUP, luxury taxes, and many other issues. “Headstart” will be right back.
KD: We’re still joined by Senator Francis Chiz Escudero. Senator Escudero this is up your alley, with the debt of the Philippines at Php14.10-T—that’s as of May 2023—by next year we’re hitting Php15-T, the same question asked in the Senate: should we start, is this something to be worried about? Is this worrisome?
CHIZ: Para sa akin hindi, Karen. Una sa lahat, hindi dapat tayo matakot sa utang. Lahat ng malalaking negosyante sa ating bansa, lahat ng bilyonaryo sa buong mundo, may utang at lumaki silang may utang. Ang hamon sa atin, bantayan at tiyakin na ‘yung perang inutang natin napupunta sa dapat talagang paglagyan, infrastructure man. Tama si Sec. Diokno, social services. Magsasabi ang iba wala namang balik sa social services, meron. Investment ang infrastructure para sa ekonomiya ng ating bansa, investment ang social services sa ating human capital. Ika nga, malusog, matatag, matalino at may skills na mamamayan. ‘Yan ay napakalaking investment para sa ating bansa.
Now, if indeed, debt to GDP ratio has exceeded 60 percent, that is a point of concern. Pero Karen, let us look at it this way, hindi lang naman pagpapababa ng debt ang solusyon para ‘yung ratio na iyan ay gumanda, meron din ‘yung kabila, pagpapalaki at pagpapalago ng ating ekonomiya. Kapag ka lumaki ang ating ekonomiya, ‘’di ‘yung debt to GDP ratio bababa. Pagka nagbayad tayo ng utang, ang debt to GDP ratio ay bababa din.
Pero sa kasaysayan ng mundo, Karen, mula ng inimbento ang utang, wala pa atang bansa na zero debt. Wala pa atang bansa na nakabayad sa lahat ng utang nila. Pinakamagandang ehemplo ay Estados Unidos—pinakamakapangyarihan at ika nga, pinaka-mayamang bansa sa mundo. Napakalaki ng utang nila. In fact, da-downgrade sila. Samantalang tayo ay in-upgrade. So hindi rason ‘yun para ikabahala natin. Hindi pa rason para ikabahala natin, lalo na Karen, as a percentage of total budget. Bumaba pa ang binabayaran at tama din si Treasurer De Leon, itoý ginawang shift ng bansa about a decade ago, na karamihan ng debt natin ay peso denominated.
Bakit ito importante? Kumikita ang gobyerno ng buwis sa pamamagitan ng piso. Kung dolyar ang utang natin, dolyar din ang ibabayad natin at kapag nag devalue ang peso mas malaking piso ang kailangan natin para magbayad sa dolyar. The shift was made by the National Treasury, BSP and Department of Finance, about 10 years ago na mas domestic tayo umuutang at hindi sa labas dahil ang kita natin nasa piso at wala naman sa dolyar.
KD: So, part of the ability to pay debt would be revenue collection, tax collection. Let’s talk about luxury taxes. This was contentious at one point, no less than President Marcos Jr. in February backed luxury taxes, but now, the Department of Finance said it’s off the table. Sec. Diokno said parang the yield would not be high enough, I’m quoting, and admin costs might be high and he cited the example of a diamond, luxury nga iyon pero ang dali naman itago so let’s move on from that argument. Joey Salceda also said at one point, kung ita-tax mo ang Louis Vuitton, ‘di bibili na lang sa ibang bansa. So, I want to hear your thoughts on luxury taxes.
CHIZ: Let’s begin with a few points, Karen. Number one, I hope they will get their acts together. The President is saying one thing. His own secretary of Finance, an alter ego, is saying another thing a few months after. Number two, I am against any new taxes because I want to focus on collection efficiency so, but, if we will impose taxes then why not look at the luxury tax instead of increasing Road Users’ Tax, instead of taxing internet purchases, instead of increasing the value-added tax. Why is that? Ang ginamit na ehemplo ni Sec. Diokno ay diamond. Diamond lang ba ang luxury, Karen? Ang helicopter hindi ba luxury? Ang eroplano hindi ba luxury? Kaya ba nilang ibulsa, itago ‘yun? O bagong kotse o mamahaling kotse? Hindi naman kayang ibulsa o itago ‘yun. Pangalawa, ayon sa Konstitusyon, taxes should be equitable, uniform, and progressive. Walang sinabi sa Constitution kapag mahirap kolektahin hindi mo na puwedeng ipataw at huwag mo nang ipataw.
Now, a luxury tax is progressive, a luxury tax is equitable, and if uniformly applied to all those buying luxury items at a certain amount, then it complies with that, too. Kung sinasabi ni Sec. Diokno, “Ay mahirap kolektahin ‘yan,” well I will use his own words. According to him, the collection efficiency of VAT is only 40 percent, we cannot collect 60 percent of the VAT we were supposed to collect, ‘di tanggalin na rin nya ang VAT. Mahirap pala kolektahin ‘yun katulad ng luxury tax, bakit nandiyan pa ang VAT, which applies to all, uniformly, and equally, rich or poor but certainly not progressively, dahil ‘yung binabayarang VAT ng mahirap, ‘yun din ang binabayarang VAT ng mayaman.
So, for me, I don’t think he should dismiss it immediately. In fact, NEDA Sec. Balisacan raised his reservation about it now, “wait, wait, wait, we can actually look into it.” So again, I go back to my first statement, I hope they will get their acts together and come up with a common stand and or position. I would rather look at this rather than increase the Road Users’ Tax because our motorists, Karen, are paying higher taxes by way of increased fuel prices and VAT is a percentage tax that goes up together with the price of fuel. Our motorists are paying toll, simply because the government has not been constructing the roads we need and leased them to the private sector to charge a toll. Tapos dadagdagan pa natin ‘yung Road Users’ Tax? Aba’y teka muna, patingin nga muna ‘yung mahigit Php100-B na nakolekta sa Road Users’ Tax na earmarked dapat sa mga lansangan, kalye at ayusin ang daanan, daluyan ng mga may-ari ng sasakyan, pampubliko man o pang pribado.
KD: And you have a point because Road Users’ Tax affects all road users, even the poor, especially the poor.
CHIZ: Especially the poor, because public utility vehicles supposed to pay that, Karen, so syempre, pass on ng pass on ‘yan pero ‘yung rate na binabayaran sa kada sasakyan. Ganoon din naman, mayaman o mahirap, so it’s not progressive. It may be equitable, it may be uniform, but it’s not progressive. And as I’ve said, difficulty in collection should not be a basis not to impose a tax especially if it is a progressive tax.
KD: OK. So, I have three questions left for you, which is a few minutes to go. So, you can just transfer this quickly. Before the end of the year, I know that the Senate President said he’d like to pass twenty priority legislative measures. But I ask you one thing because you made a stand on this. You asked, why should we replace the National Service Training Program with ROTC because there is a Senate Bill right now, mandating all students enroll in ROTC. The Senate President said when it hits the floor, he will probably support it, you know, Vice President Sarah Duterte has been fighting for the ROTC to come back, what about you Senator Chiz?
CHIZ: I will most likely vote against it, Karen. I took a position against it. I was chairman of the committee that was supposed to tackle this. I inhibited myself, I didn’t stifle it. I passed it on to a subcommittee headed by Senator Bato and told him, you want this, you defend it. I won’t archive it, I won’t stifle it because I have zero backlog in my committees, gaya ng 112 bills that need to be tackled, to be fair. And I told him that I will interpellate and most likely vote against it and that is what I am doing now, Karen.
I am against this simply because I don’t see the wisdom behind it that ROTC will inculcate patriotism and love for the country. I went through CMT, Citizen’s Military Training, and I don’t think I got a love for country from that. Pangalawa, Karen, ROTC is part of NSTP so my question is—they’re brandishing a survey that says 75 percent of Filipinos aged 18-24 favor mandatory ROTC—my question is, is that a survey using random sampling? I am using actual hard facts and data which is of those required to take NSTP, only 18 or on a good year for ROTC 20 percent take the ROTC option, kung 75 percent ang may gusto niyan, ‘di sana 75 percent ng 18-24 na college students natin, ROTC ang kinuha. At puwede naman nilang kuhanin sa ilalim ng NSTP law. Now, if NSTP is not a success, my question is where is the study that says it is not? And if NSTP is not a success and ROTC is part of NSTP then I guess ROTC should be deemed as a failure as well and I should be looking at something totally new.
Next Kare, they want to include law enforcement, they want to include disaster resiliency, they want to include community service, nationalism, and patriotism. I asked for a curriculum, a program of instructions, how will this be divided. ‘Yung number of units na lang, Karen, ‘di na kami magkasundo. Sabi nila 4 hours a week daw pero 3 units. Sabi ko, basic ‘yun, ‘di ba? Kung ilang oras sa isang lingo, ‘yun ang bilang ng unit, and you are including this in the curriculum? Because the student cannot graduate unless he completes this so if this is going to be 2 years so you are talking 12 additional units in the curriculum of any 2-to-4-year, 5-year course, that a college student would have to pass and accomplish.
KD: OK, all right. Well, we don’t have enough time so I’ll skip the other one but I’ll close with this. You have netizens say there is “a new Chiz Escudero,” right? I can’t resist. You’re out in fashion week more surprisingly, right? There are more photos of you everywhere and yet netizens also commenting, you look different. So ang tanong ngayon as being a senator and. frankly, you being in the news all my life, what’s happening Senator?
CHIZ: I’m not part of fashion week, Karen. Ako lang ‘yung alalay sa likod ng asawa ko tuwing may fashion week at libre at bakante ako. Ako ‘yung taga-laba, taga-luto, taga-linis, taga-tahi kapag may kailangan tahiin. Minsan lang umaawra-awra, pero hindi palagi ‘yon. Nakukumbinse lang at napipilit. In so far as the others are concerned, well Karen, like you tumatanda tayo and our objective should be longevity, not really to look good or be good but be healthy, to preserve and have longevity. Longevity should be the objective, Karen.
KD: OK. Well, all right. It’s nice—
KD: Thank you so much for joining me today as always, insights and humor at the end. Senator Chiz Escudero, always a pleasure. Thank you, Sir.
CHIZ: Likewise. Thank you, Karen. Good morning to our televiewers.