SENATOR CHIZ ESCUDERO (CHIZ): Mr. Chairman?
SENATOR RONALD DELA ROSA (RDR): Go ahead, Senator Escudero.
CHIZ: With the permission of Senator Jinggoy, on this point Dr. Fernandez and to Ms. Reyes ‘yong two minutes, 54 or 57, 54 ito ‘yung oras na lumipas mula nung nilagay ‘yung sample doon sa makina hangang sa lumabas yung resulta, tama po ba?
GERESZA REYES (GR): Sir, hindi po makina. Ito po ay drug test kit na para pong pregnancy test kit or parang sa COVID.
CHIZ: ‘Yung parang ginaganoon?
GR: Hindi naman po. Ido-drop lang ‘yung urine sa one end tapos hihintayin mo na lang siya.
CHIZ: So hindi ito ‘yung kabuuang proseso ng kinuha ‘yung urine na two minutes lang.
GR: ‘Yung transaction time po is the specimen collection so pag-abot po nung sample tapos gagawin na niya.
CHIZ: At ‘yung rule ng DOH hindi puwedeng lumampas ng?
GR: Wala pong rule ang DOH.
CHIZ: Hindi puwedeng mas mabilis kaysa? Ano ‘yung limang minuto binabanggit niyo po kanina?
GR: ‘Yung drug test kit po na ginagamit naming hangang 5 minutes po puwede niyong basahin.
CHIZ: Now I remember the presscon of then Executive Secretary—no, he is not yet executive secretary that time he was about to be—Vic Rodriguez. Sabi niya tinest daw po sa lahat ng uri ng droga. Anu-ano pong klase ng droga ang tinest o lahat po ba kasama?
GR: Kanino po? Kay—
CHIZ: —‘Yung test po na ginawa ninyo.
GR: Cocaine lang po ang ipinagawa.
CHIZ: Cocaine lang ang ipinagawa?
GR: Opo.
CHIZ: Hindi po kasama ang iba?
GR: Hindi po.
CHIZ: ‘Yung resultang ‘yun po ba ay isinapubliko? I saw it on GMA, read it on the papers the results of the drug test.
SENATOR JINGGOY ESTRADA (JE): If I may answer, Senator Chiz. This was widely-publicized in 2021 if I may recall, if my memory serves me right.
CHIZ: So, it was publicized, Ma’am?
GR: It did not come from St. Luke’s. We did not know.
CHIZ: It came from the person tested.
RDR: Senator Chiz, ‘yung drug test na ito na pinag-uusapan na ito, ang sinabi ni Executive Secretary Rodriguez, this pertains to the drug test the you made on the former Senator Bongbong Marcos?
GR: Yes.
RDR: ‘Yun ba ang ibig mong sabihin?
GR: Opo.
RDR: ‘Yan ‘yon? So, you said the particularly cocaine ang tine-test ninyo. Why cocaine?
GR: ‘Yun po ‘yung hiningi niya.
RDR: Hiningi ni?
GR: Nung pasyente.
RDR: Sinong pasyente?
GR: Si Marcos po.
RDR: President Marcos?
GR: Then—
RDR: Then Senator Marcos. ‘Yun ang gusto niyang hingiin about cocaine.
GR: ‘Yun po lang ang hiningi niya.
RDR: So, your laboratory is capable of tracing cocaine residue doon sa ihi sa pasyente?
GR: Yes po.
RDR: So iba ‘yung ginagamit niyo sa cocaine? Iba ‘yung ginagamit niyo sa shabu?
GR: Yes po.
RDR: Iba rin ang gagamitin ninyo sa marijuana? Am I correct?
GR: Opo.
RDR: Pero ako, kung walk-in lang ako. Pupunta ako doon sa iyo, I want a drug test. Ano ang gagamitin ninyo?
GR: Kung ano po ang hihingiin niyo.
RDR: May ganoon ba na hihingiin? Kasi lahat ng tao dito sa Pilipinas, magpa-drug test, hindi naman nagtatanong na, “i-test niyo ako sa cocaine,” i-test niyo ako sa shabu,” “i-test niyo ako sa marijuana,” wala. Pupunta ako sa inyo, magpa-drug test para kapag mag-negative dalhin ko ‘yung dokumento mag-apply ako ng trabaho. ‘Yun lang naman ang ginagawa natin hindi naman kami nagre-request sa inyo ng, “i-test niyo ako sa cocaine,” “i-test niyo ako sa shabu,” “i-test niyo ako sa marijuana. Hindi. pupunta ako sa inyo, “please conduct drug test.” Negative, salamat dalhin ko ito sa in-apply-an ko na trabaho. Wala ako, negative ako. Bakit ini-specify na cocaine? Sure ka? Cocaine ang hiningi ng pasyente ng panahon na ‘yun?
GR: Opo.
CHIZ: Mr. Chairman?
RDR: OK.
CHIZ: Mr. Chairman?
RDR: Thank you. Go ahead, Senator Chiz.
CHIZ: Since you are a PNP Chief and we have a lot of police officers here, kapag nag-a-apply ako para sa LTOPF o permit to carry required po ako mag-drug test, hindi po ba? ‘Yung drug test po na inire-require ninyo, ‘yun po ba ay para sa lahat din ng uri ng droga o hindi po? Sino po ang puwedeng sumagot?
DDB CHAIRPERSON CATALINO CUY (CC): Thank you, your Honor and good morning to everyone, to our honorable senators. ‘Yung requirement for drug test, this is one of the requirements for people applying for driver’s license, permit to carry firearms, yung ating License to Own and Possess Firearms, meron din pong required random testing for secondary and collegiate level students, random testing po ito.
CHIZ: Ang tinatanong ko po ay nag-apply para sa permit to carry firearms.
CC: Yes. Kailangan po ‘yun.
CHIZ: Lahat po ba ng droga, tini-test?
CC: Shabu and marijuana po ang tini-test namin.
CHIZ: kapag nagco-cocaine ako, apply ako ng lisensya, puwede?
CC: Maaaring makalusot po kasi ‘yun po ‘yung—
CHIZ: That is the chairman’s point. So, for license to carry firearms outside of residence ang tini-test lang po ng PNP ay shabu at marijuana?
CC: ‘Yun po ang predominant.
CHIZ: Yes or no, Sir. Meaning, apparently there are different tests. Yes or no, Sir?
CC: Yes po, your Honor.
CHIZ: Number two, drug test for driver’s license, ano lang po ‘yung tini-test?
CC: Ganoon din po. Yes, your Honor, shabu and marijuana.
CHIZ: Shabu lang and marijuana. So ‘yan po ang nire-require ng gobyerno sa mga pagkakataon na nire-require ang drug test.
CC: Kasi po iba-iba pong reagent ang ginagamit d’yan at itong shabu and marijuana being the predominant drugs na ginagamit natin ‘yan po ‘yung marami tayong reagent.
CHIZ: Sir, saan po nakasulat ‘yan na shabu and marijuana lang ang ite-test natin?
CC: Wala naman po. Pero ‘yan po ‘yung practice na ginagamit natin.
CHIZ: No. On the part of PDEA and, especially on the part of the Dangerous Drugs Board you are, especially on the part of DBB which is policymaking, I think this fell into the cracks. Sino ang nagde-determine ‘yung bumibili ng testing kits. Where is the policy coming from? Bakit sino ang nag-decide at nagsabing marijuana lamang at shabu?
CC: Meron pong dalawang test na ginagawa ‘yung screening and ‘yung confirmatory. Kapag nag-positive po ‘yung first sa screening ito po ‘yung isa-subject for (inaudible) dito po malalaman.
CHIZ: Sir, I agree, Sir. But my question is where it is written na kapag drug test required by the government whether for driver’s license or for permit to carry firearms outside of residence. You only test for these two prohibited drugs. Saan po nakasulat ‘yun? Sino po ang nagbaba ng polisiyang ‘yun? Sino ang nagdesisyon po nun o nagkataon lang? Nakasanayan lang?
CC: Wala pong ganoon. ‘Yun lang po ‘yung ginagawa siguro po sa additional expenses, kung gagamit pa ng reagent. Pero ‘yun nga po doon sa secondary testing po doon sa confirmatory testing dito po malalaman kung anong drugs ‘yung na-detect sa initial screening.
CHIZ: Perhaps this is another gap the good chairman of the committee can look into, Mr. Chairman. Why is it that it is only the test for shabu and marijuana is being used shabu and marijuana would be called the poor man’s addictive drug while cocaine would be the richer man’s addictive drug? So kahit pala sa testing pinapaboran ang mga mayayaman kumpara sa mahirap ‘di ba kung nagte-test tayo gaya ng sinabi ni Senator Bato, lahat na.
But the point I’m driving at, Mr. Chairman, is kung ang gobyerno namimili ng kung anong droga ang iti-test. Lalo naman siguro kung ang indibidwal na magti-test kung ano ‘yung babayaran niya and I remember that time I think that was done in November and issues are being raised to then candidate Bongbong Marcos that these issues were raised to against him. Allegedly, he was a cocaine user and that’s why at that time they conducted these tests to answer in light of the political perhaps whether that time the issues were being raised against him.
Although there is no legal requirement for a candidate to do a drug test. That was attempted at some point in time in our history to require a drug test but the Supreme Court, unfortunately, struck it down as an additional requirement for elective office which is not allowed under the constitution unfortunately. Sana nga ni-require ‘yun pero hindi sabi ng Korte Suprema, hindi puwede. Applying a higher standard, a less strict standard in so far as running for public office. So, I guess that answers the query of the chairman, and that reveals a loophole too in so far as drug testing rules of the Philippine National Police, the PDEA, and the DDB is concerned.
RDR: Thank you, Senator Chiz. So, I presume as a result of this inquiry in aid of legislation this committee will propose legislation, propose a measure requiring all candidates to undergo drug tests before there will be. I know it’s bawal because according to our Constitution. So kapag mag-propose tayo, automatically, hindi ‘yan makakalusot because that’s unconstitutional.
Just to set the record straight, because people are listening to us right now. Sabi ni Bato kailangan daw ang committee niya is in aid of legislation. So, while waiting for legislation puwede ‘yan ma-come up after this hearing. So, kung mag-propose tayo ng ganoong legislation requiring candidates to undergo drug test sigurado, according to Senator Chiz Escudero that’s unconstitutional. So hindi talaga makalusot ‘yan dito. So please if you are listening right now ‘yan po ang explanation.
CHIZ: But nothing prevents the chair and the committee from instructing DDB from coming up with a relevant policy as it is its job under the law in so far as the type of tests to be conducted whenever drug testing is required as the case maybe in driver’s license or for the issuance of a permit to carry firearms outside of residence or other circumstance executive branch may necessitate. Pati ‘yung random drug test, may random drug test tayo sa Senado, I’m also curious kung ano ang i-tini-test sa random drug test baka lang pili lang din. So again, I urge the DDB come up with a policy guidelines with respect to these things required and random drug testing, hindi lang dalawa ang iti-test natin.
CHIZ: Mr. Chairman, may I ask Mr. Morales, sino po ‘yung kausap ni G. Enriquez? Sino po ‘yung kausap niyo sa telepono?
FORMER PDEA DIRECTOR GENERAL JONATHAN MORALES (JM): According to Mr. Enriquez si Eric Santiago, your Honor, alyas “Picoy.”
CHIZ: Ito po, Mr. Chairman, live naman nandito yung dalawa imbes na pinapanood natin sila doon ayaw niyong tanungin na lang sila kung ano yung pinag-uusapan nila kasi nandito naman po sila.
RDR: Yes. Very material ‘yung recording. Baka mamaya iba ang sabihin nila dito, iba ‘yung napag-usapan nila diyan. So pakinggan muna natin ‘yung pinag-usapan nila diyan bago natin sila tanungin isa-isa dahil baka mamaya iba ‘yung recorded, iba ‘yung sasabihin nila dito ngayon. So mahuli natin kung nagsisinungaling sila. So ‘yun lang sa akin kung, anyway very short clip lang naman ‘yan.
CHIZ: Habang wala pa. Tutal naman, Mr. Chairman, kapag iba sinabi nila bago pa ilabas ‘yung video ganoon pa rin naman ‘yun. Huli pa rin.
RDR: OK, sige.
CHIZ: Habang hinihintay natin hangang maayos ‘yung technical lang, ‘yung technical problems nila.
CHIZ: Mr. Chairman?
RDR: Si Senator Chiz Escudero.
CHIZ: Mr. Chairman, may I know the issue that was out in media and social media already at that time? Ano po ba ‘yung issue na pinag-aawayan? Because the premise of this question, Mr. Chairman, Atty. Lacanilao is ang pinapalabas ni G. Morales kasi pinigilan daw ‘yung imbestigasyon niya mula sa taas mismo yung utos at bilang patunay nun at ebidensya nun pinatawag nga daw siya sa Malacañang. Sino ba siya para ipatawag sa Malacanang na ang mga kinatawan na ES noong mga panahon na ‘yun? Hindi po ba ‘yun po ang dating kaya po kayo pinatawag ng chairman natin kasi ‘yun ang dating na kaya siya pinatawag dahil nga doon sa pinipigilan sa kanya ‘yung operation, particular subject matter ng PDEA leaks? Ngayon ang tanong ko po, ano po ba yung issue kung bakit niyo siya pinatawag? Tungkol din po ba dito?
ATTY. JOJO LACANILAO (JL): ‘Yun po exactly ‘yung ipinalalabas niya sa social media tsaka sa radio na allegations po noon po nung 2013 na kaya siya nilipat. Hindi naman kami ang naglipat sa kanya, nilipat siya from this big operation to a smaller one. Nabanggit ni Mr. Chairman ‘yung pangalan nung Chinese. Naalala ko lang po dahil nga daw po, parang ini-imply niya na hawak ng Chinese syndicate ‘yung PDEA. Ngayon, one of the things he said ‘no kaya rin kami na-trigger is that parang walang ginagawa ‘yung Malacanang. Ganoon ‘yung kuwento. Magulo na ho sa social media noon tsaka sa radio, if some of you would remember.
CHIZ: Ang tanong ko po, alam niyo naman ‘yung subject matter nung PDEA, supposed PDEA leak video. Mayroon daw sesyon na nagaganap ng cocaine sa Rockwell. ‘Yan po ba ‘yung subject matter o may kinalaman po ba sa subject matter na ‘yan ‘yung pagpapatawag ninyo sa kanya? ‘Yan po ba ‘yung issue kung bakit niyo po siya ipinatawag o hindi?
JL: Hindi po. It’s about his mga reklamo niya na inilipat siya from a big operation to a community operation, I think sa Payatas. At ini-imply niya na hawak ng sindikato ‘yung PDEA leadership kaya ginawa ‘yon. So ‘yun ang lumalabas sa media. Hindi ko po naririnig ‘yung Rockwell, wala pong kinalaman doon yun kaya po ipinatawag naming just because of that claim. Gusto naming patunayan mo naman kasi unfair naman na sasabihin mo sa media ‘yan. So, we gave him a chance pero wala naman po siyang ipinakita.
CHIZ: Tinutukoy niyo po ba ay lumabas sa pahayagan ngayon at si G. Michael Yang ang sindikato na involved even at that time?
JL: Hindi ko na po matandaan ‘yung pangalan pero I could imagine na tama po ‘yung lumalabas ngayon na ‘yun po ‘yung nabanggit siguro mako-confirm na lang ni General Cacdac. Kasi pinakita po sa amin, grupo ng Chinese syndicates hindi ko na rin po matandaan.
Pero there is one operation that he was involved in and then may nangyaring allegations against him. Tinggal siya, inilipat siya sa community. After that, lumabas na lahat sa media ‘no nagrereklamo siya sa media that was 2013, eleven years ago. Because of that I think several weeks tapos sinasabi rin niya na ang Malacañang walang ginagawa kaya doon po kami na-trigger in a sense na baka madamay si ES na tanungin ng media, nadamay ang president. So, we have to now get to the bottom of the truth. So, we did try to do that ang problema when he came in, he had nothing to show anyway, wala ho siyang ebidensya kaya hindi na po naming pinursue ang mga allegations against the PDEA leadership. And then we asked PDEA leadership mayroon din naman silang counter complaint against him at in-explain nga nila kung bakit siya natanggal doon and we though, alam na naming ang nangyari we can answer ES questioning if he had any or even the president so that was the end of it. And we said, “O, sige internal process na ‘yan.” Nag complain naman sila, may admin case or criminal case. Siya naman puwedeng mag-complain, so hindi na po naming ginalaw ‘yun.
CHIZ: So may I just clarify, Mr. Chairman. It is your testimony that number one, walang kinalaman dito sa pre-operation report na tinatawag na PDEA leaks ang pagpapatawag sa kanya. Number two, ang alegasyon niya na walang ginagawa ang Malacanang na kabaliktaran tila ng sinasabi ngayon na may ginawa daw ang Malacanang kaugnay sa pagpapapigil ng report na umakyat hangang kay G. Cacdac, gayundin sa Executive Secretary dati. Naalala niyo po ba ang sinabi niya, particularly?
JL: Alam niyo, Mr. Senator, hindi ko po kasi napakinggan ‘yung buong testimony niya ngayon, ‘no at inaalala ko lang po ‘yung mga nangyari. Wala hong kinalaman sa Rockwell, whatever that is ngayon ko lang kasi ho narinig ‘yan. It was all about his complaints against the PDEA leadership for transferring him to a new assignment of alleging that there was some connivance, ‘no, between the syndicate and the PDEA that’s why we called him.
Explain niyo naman kasi hindi naman puwedeng sa radio tayo mag-air. Wala naman ho siyang ipinakitang kahit na anong ebidensya. And then to be fair naman, we also called the PDEA anyway and confronted them with a question: “ano ba itong in-alleged ni Morales sa inyo?” In-explain naman ho nila na ang nagyari ho diyan nag-raid ata sila ng I think, Michael Yang nga ho yata yung pangalan and then may nangyaring ina-alleged against him, ‘no, that’s why he was removed. Hindi na naming pinasukan ‘yon. And then, ultimately, dahil nag-file din sila ng admin case, I don’t know kung criminal case ‘yung finile nila, we moved out na kasi alam na naming ang nangyari. It doesn’t necessitate any more intervention from the Office of the President and it went through the process. ‘Yun nga natanggal yata si Mr. Morales sa PDEA hindi na ho namin alam yun, process na ho ‘yon.
CHIZ: I’m sorry, I’ve been really patient but this has absolutely nothing to do with the Batangas Drug Haul and nothing to do with the PDEA Leaks. This is something former agent Morales has probably against General Cacdac or probably has something against General Serapio. Sorry for grating the Chairman, but ang layo na ho ng—pati na ‘yung mga Tan ho— nai-involve na, ang layo na ho.
So may I ask Mr. Chairman, that we not give that much leeway to the witness to be talking about so many things, and in the end, we bothered General Serapio is about who supposed to leave for Davao this afternoon. We bothered even if he was not invited. Atty. Lacanilao, we bothered General Cacdac simply because he was mentioned in the–making it appear it seems that it was all a conspiracy to silence him but listening to these honorable gentlemen and officers and gentlemen, Mr. Chairman.
So, may I ask that we try to not go to everything Mr. Morales is saying each time he mentions a name? This has nothing to do with the subject matter at hand and this is nothing to do, Mr. Chairman, as well as what we are trying to find out in this hearing.
Mr. Chairman, if I may. If an agent prepares a pre-op report theoretically and does not submit it dahil nagdalawang isip siya, natakot siya kung anuman ang motibo niya o nabayaran siya kung anuman ang motibo niya he did not submit it as you testified wala sa records niyo is that document confidential? Is that document part of your official records?
PDEA LEGAL AFFAIRS CHIEF FRANCIS DEL VALLE (FDV): My answer, your Honor, is no. It is not, it did not become part of the official records of PDEA, maybe that documents ay naging official or personal file lamang po ng ating resource person.
CHIZ: When ang person files ng isang resource person, tulad ng sinabi ng ating Chairman noong siya ay pulis marami siyang mga informant, may mga ebidensya na nakakalap pag-alis sa departamento, pag-retire dala-dala niya ‘yon. Iuuwi niya ‘yon. Parang ako rin ‘yan noong nag-congressman ako, governor. Unang term ko sa Senado nun natapos dala-dala ko rin lahat. Malay ko bang bawal ‘yun? Sabi nga ni Senator Tolentino, wala namang batas na nagsasabing bawal ‘yon. So hangga’t hindi tinatanggap ng PDEA para magpasya kayo kung itutuloy nga ba nag-operasyon o hindi, hindi pa opisyal na dokumento ng PDEA ‘yun. Ganoon po ba ang interpretasyon niyo?
FDV: Yes po, your Honor.
CHIZ: So, it may be a document prepared by a PDEA agent but not something that the PDEA would stand on as of yet because it has not yet been tested the veracity, the validity at hindi hinusgahan pa kung ito nga ay io-operate natin o hindi.
FDV: Yes po, your Honor.
CHIZ: Ngayon, dudugtungan ko pa po kung pinapanood niyo po ang mga hearing ni Senator Bato na number one yata ito sa social media ngayon ang alegasyon ni G. Morales ay hindi siya pinayagan na i-operate ito. Pinigilan siyang i-operate ito. Umakyat hangang kay General dating Director Cacdac, umakyat hangang kay Gadapan, umakyat hangang kay ES Ochoa. Ang daming pinuntahan kaya ipinatawag pa raw siya sa Malacnang. Ang tanong ko, kung hindi bahagi ng record ng PDEA, paano ito matatanggihan ng kahit na sino sa PDEA kung wala sa records?
FDV: Your Honor, actually po, ang nangyari dito kasi hindi po sinunod ni Mr. Morales ‘yung standard procedure of PDEA. Kasi kapag may dumating na confidential informant, ‘yung dapat na gagawin niya after conducting interview, si Mr. Morales, dapat kakausapin niya rin po ‘yung kanyang immediate superior which is Division Chief during that time ay si Director Francia and after talking sana—
RDR: —Nasaan si Francia?
FDV: Nag-submit po siya ng excuse letter.
JM: Your Honor, Mr. Chairman dineny nga po, ang instruction po ni—
RDR: —Wait until I recognize you. Kaya may chairman dito para ako magdala sa discussion. Tatanungin kita mamaya.
CHIZ: He was about to say something.
FDV: After po sana sa kanyang division chief dapat malalaman din po ito ng kanyang director and during that time it’s Director Lachica ‘yung Director of Intelligence and Investigation Service. Nagtataka po kami kung bakit even ‘yung kanyang Division chief, si Director Francia, even ‘yung kanyang director ng Intelligence and Investigation Service, si Director Lachica, hindi man lang na-inform.
In fact, wala silang kaalam-alam sa nangyaring ito. Dumirekta daw siya kay Deputy Director General for operation, si then Sir Gadapan. Hindi po ‘yon ‘yung normal procedure. In fact, the Deputy General for Operation, hindi na po kailangan ‘yung approval niya in preparing this particular documents na dalawang ‘yan hindi po kailangan ‘yung approval ng DDGO. Ang mangyayari po, doon lang sa level nila dapat naayos doon and after that after validation, OK, so dapat doon pa lang sila kukuha, magre-report sa plants and operations service para po makakuha ng authority to operate and pre-operation report.
CHIZ: So ang binabanggit ninyong Deputy Director Gadapan na nagkataong pumanaw na pero, so far, ‘yung mga buhay pa hindi pinapatotoo.
FDV: Yes po. Actually—
CHIZ: ‘Yung mga alegasyon so far—
FDV: Actually, your Honor, sa presentation ko po kasama po diyan ‘yung affidavit of the eight agents that during that time, they were assigned doon po sa Intelligence and Investigations service. Now kung sila po—
RDR: Sandali, nandito si General Cacdac. Sir, this happened during your time, ‘di ba, 2012? Ikaw o si Gutierrez?
FORMER PDEA DIRECTOR GENERAL ARTURO CACDAC (AC): No, your Honor it was still Usec. Gutierrez.
RDR: Si Usec. Gutierrez ba, Sir?
AC: I assume October 18, but my order is October 11.
RDR: OK. Thank you, Sir.
AC: Thank you, your Honor.
RDR: Ang hirap wala na tayong matanong dahil puro pumanaw na, nasa langit na.
FDV: If I may continue.
RDR: Please continue.
FDV: Dito po sa dalawang nakita natin na pre-operation reports in authority to operate, sinabi ko po kanina na maraming blangko and then we have to take note of the fact na nilagay niya po diyan na seven other personnel of the IIS, Intelligence and Investigations Service. Consistent po ‘yan doon sa kanyang naging letter sa amin pong Director General of PDEA dated April 7, 2024 na ‘yung conduct niya ng interview doon sa confidential informant ay in front of some other IIS personnel.
So ano po ‘yung ginawa ni PDEA para po malaman kung totoo o hindi, ipinatawag po namin ‘yung mga naka-assign during that time sa Intelligence and Investigations Service. Sinu-sino ‘yon? We have consulted the Director of Human Resources Management Service of PDEA and then kinausap naming sila nangyari ba talaga ito o hindi. Ang sabi po nila, wala po silang kaalam-alam, wala po silang natatandaan based on their personal recollection na may nangyari pong confidential informant na nag-report stating therein na ‘yung subject po na nandito sa ating pre-operation report and the authority to operate ay naging (inaudible) po.
CHIZ: Mr. Chairman, if I may, I did not attend the first hearing, I did not attend the entirety of the second hearing but I know for a fact it’s a photocopy. It’s a picture of a photocopy is what we have. If what we have is you say a picture of a photocopy paano po natin malalaman kung gaano kaluma ang papel na ‘yun na may butas oo meaning nasa folder dati pero paano po natin malalaaman kung brown na ‘yung papel, kung luma na ‘yung papel if what we have on hand without Agent Morales presenting, former agent Morales presenting the original if he has it. How do we find out if it’s, how did we find out that it is an old piece of paper?
RDR: Paki-flash nga ‘yung papel na ‘yan? Paki-flash nga ulit ‘yung papel. Paki-flash.
CHIZ: Especially referring to the color, Mr. Chairman.
RDR: ‘Yung color, ‘yung kanina. Tignan niyo yung mga markings na ‘yan, mga nabasa-basa na yan siguro—
CHIZ: —Mr. Chairman, I went to the college of law I would photocopy at least about a hundred volumes of SCRA, depende ho doon sa xerox. May xerox na maganda, may xerox, ‘yung mas murang xerox mas pangit. Yung mamisong xerox noon clear.
RDR: Well, magkakaroon tayo ng kanya-kanyang—
CHIZ: —Yes.
RDR: Open your needle. Pero ako nag-retire ako sa PNP kung tignan mo ‘yung mga second lieutenant pa ako na file ganyan na ganyan talaga tignan ngayon. Ganyan na ganyan talaga ‘yung mga color na ‘yan. So, kaya nga sinabi ko existing ‘yung file na ‘yan kasi paano nga nagkaroon ng soft copy kung walang kinopyahan diyan. ‘Yun lang sa akin but when you say na non-existent sa file niyo ‘yun wala talaga. Naniniwala ako sa inyo. Pero kung totoo ‘yan o hindi I bet my bayag, totoo ‘yan pero ang tanong sino ang may hawak? Posible ba na si Morales ang may hawak niyan at siya ang nagpakalat niyan to be frank about it. Isa ‘yan sa mga pagdududa na iniisip ko Jonathan Morales na puwedeng ikaw—
JM: Yes, your Honor, ang ano nga, Mr. Chairman, ano kaya lang ako napunta rito as resource person dahil nga noong sumulat ako sa kanila sinabi ko na wala akong kinalaman diyan sa nilabas nung vlogger. Kasi kinontak lang din ako ng kasamahan ko sa PDEA. Kaya ko lang din nalaman.
CHIZ: Mr. Chairman?
RDR: Yes, go ahead, Senator Chiz.
CHIZ: Narinig na natin ang akusado maraming kaso, nagsinungaling noon meaning it will be submitted anyway. Since you will be doing the prayer, Mr. Chairman, I’d like to take advantage of the presence of this witness. Tokayo, Atty. Francis, is a pre-operation report and authority to operate, that document is it a controlled document or form lang ‘yun na matatagpuan sa opisina ng PDEA?
FDV: That’s not a controlled document.
CHIZ: So, form lang ‘yun na matatagpuan sa opisina ng PDEA, dadampot ka ng isa kung may gagawin kang, may isa-submit kang pre-operation report o authority to operate. Tama po ba?
FDV: Tama po ba?
CHIZ: Magiging controlled document lang ‘yan kapag nalagyan na ng numero?
FDV: Yes po.
CHIZ: So hangga’t wala pang numero ‘yan. Hindi pa ‘yan controlled document therefore hindi pa ‘yan official document, therefore hindi pa siya public document therefore hindi pa siya kasama sa official records ng PDEA?
FDV: Yes po.
CHIZ: Magiging official record lang ‘yan gaya ng sinasabi ni Chairman Dela Rosa wala kayong kopya kasi hindi pa nga sina-submit. Hindi pa din—kung hindi pa siya sina-submit, ‘di hindi rin siya bahagi ng official records ng PDEA. If it is not part of the official records of PDEA it is not the proper subject matter of a leak either yet kasi hindi pa naman bahagi ng official record ng PDEA. Ngayon possible na may ginawang ganyan talaga si G. Morales. May informant man o wala, may nagbigay man affidavit o wala. May picture man o wala possible ‘yun pero hawak niya, file niya, nasa kanya sa puntong yun since you are an attorney, Atty. Francis public document na ba siya o hindi pa? O dahil siya ay officer agent ng PDEA maituturing ng public document siya?
FDV: No, your Honor.
CHIZ: My next question, Sir, is kung ito ay pinanumpaan, affidavit. Sino po ‘yung nagpapasumpa sa PDEA nung mga panahong ‘yon?
FDV: Marami pong lawyers na naka-assign po sa legal and prosecutions service ng PDEA sila po ‘yung dapat na magpasumpa.
CHIZ: Kung lawyer po ‘yan, at I presume, puwede lang sila magpasumpa kapag sila ay notaryo.
FDV: Meron pong mga notarial commission during that time.
CHIZ: ‘Yung mga walang notarial commission meron po ba silang listahan ng mga pinapasumpa?
FDV: Meron po kasi yung iba doon although they do not have the notarial commission allowed po sila to administer ‘yung mga documents po.
CHIZ: Allowed sila to administer pero nire-record ba nila yung sumusumpa sa harap nila?
FDV: Yes po.
CHIZ: Kahit wala silang notarial commission?
FDV: Meron po ‘yung legal and prosecution unit kung sinu-sino po ‘yung mga nagpa-administer doon sa office.
CHIZ: Matanong ko po kayo sa dokumento ng PDEA kung binalik-tanawan niyo talaga. Nag-research po kayo sa lahat ng dokumento meron po bang nakasaaad doon na may nanumpa noong araw ng Sabado patungkol po sa bagay na ito at kung saka-sakali listahan ng mga notary o mga abogadong may notary dahil may record po yan ng kanilang mga pinanumpaan 10 years ago, 15, 20 years ago. Sina-submit po ‘yan sa husgado kada taon ang lahat ng notary.
FDV: Wala po kaming nakitang records. In fact, I issued as director of the legal and prosecution service a certification na wala po kaming nakitang records na ganoon. And if I may add po, your Honor, hindi po ito kasi ‘yung usual na once na mayroon pong confidential informant na for example first time na pumunta wala pong confidential informant na papayag na ita-transcribe into sworn statement po ‘yun kasi in a sworn statemen. Kung magiging affidavit po ito, ilalagay niya ‘yung pangalan doon and then sasamahan niya po si G. Morales sa legal ang prosecution service. Wala pong confidential informant na papayag sa ganoon.
CHIZ: So, sa kasong ito kung may affidavit man, personal niya ‘yun kung saang notary man ‘Yun. Kung may pre-operation o authority to operate man, hindi pa niya isinusumite kung saka-sakali para tumugma nga ‘yung sinasabi ng chairman na posibleng may ganoong dokumento na ganoon na nga katagal pero hindi dumapo, hindi nakaabot, hindi nakarating sa talaan, sa records, sa dokumento na nasa panghahawak ng PDEA para maging official document ito?
FDV: Yes po. Although binanggit po ni Mr. Morales during the first hearing na ‘yung affidavit daw is notaryohan niyo o nag-subscribe dun sa legal and prosecution unit of PDEA.
CHIZ: Walang record nga doon?
FDV: Wala pong records.
CHIZ: Nang may sumumpa dun sa petsang ‘yon?
FDV: Wala po.
CHIZ: Huling katanungan. Itong pre-operation report tsaka authority to operate, kapag ka ito’y nalagyan na ng control number dadaan na po ‘yan sa proseso at kailangan ng pagpasyahan ng mga opisyal, itutuloy ba ‘to o huwag itutuloy ‘to etcetera. Tama po ba ‘yon?
FDV: Tama po.
CHIZ: So ito’y kumbaga application lamang ito?
FDV: Opo.
CHIZ: Kapag sinumite doon pa lang gugulong ‘yung bola, ika nga.
FDV: Opo.
CHIZ: Hangga’t hindi sinusumite, hindi gugulong ang bola.
FDV: Opo, tama po.
CHIZ: At walang kailangang pagpasyahan sinuman sa hierarchy ng PDEA mula sa kanyang immediate hanggang sa pinakamataas na opisyal ng PDEA.
FDV: Tama po.
CHIZ: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Attorney for that clarification. Mr. Chairman, on that point, before we adjourn, I’d like to raise an issue now or probably on the Floor later because I heard the chairman earlier that we would have blown up this hearing if Sec. Ochoa had attended but my problem, Mr. Chairman, is Maharlika the number one antagonist, protagonist character—whatever you call it—has no plans of attending she has said to herself, Mr. Chairman.
So do we wait for him and keep this hearing open regarding other names mentioned. I brought this up in the last hearing, Mr. Chairman. For example, Mr. Morales mentioned President Duterte that he knows. ‘Yon ang claim niya and I raised the issue na hanggang saan tayo magpapatawag sa pangalang binabanggit ni G. Morales. Binanggit niya si Ms. Maricel Soriano, inimbitahan natin. Binanggit si General Cacdac, inimbitahan natin. Si General Serapio, inimbitahan natin. Gaya ng sinasabi ko Mr. Chairman at some point in time we have to rein in kung hanggang saan lang gaya ng sabi ng Senate President earlier and that is the reason, Mr. Chairman.
I think I’ve been in the Senate for quite some time, the reason why a motu proprio is usually done, usually is a and by tradition the Senate. I’ll mention this on the Floor later. By tradition in the Senate, a motu proprio hearing is conducted during recess kasi wala pong sesyon may nangyari. May nangyari kailangan mag-hearing or hindi pa nare-refer, na-file na ‘yung resolution, hindi pa nare-refer kaya kailangan mag-hearing. But in the past, a resolution was forthwith filed para ‘yung direksyon maliwanag, hindi ‘yung depende sa makulay po ang buhay ni G. Morales. Marami po siyang karanasan at marami po siyang nakasalamuhang mga tao at hindi ho ako magugulat na totoong nakasalamuha ‘yung mga kilala at batikang mga pangalan sa ating kasaysayan.
Pero mahirap naman po na kada pangalang babanggitin ay ipapatawag at magdedepende ang pagpapatuloy o hindi pagpapatuloy ng hearing sa pagdalo ng mga pangalang binabanggit niya lalo na wala naman po siyang personal knowledge. Meaning, hindi po niya personal na nakasalamuha o narinig yung mga diumanong bagay na sinabi kabilang na ‘yung personal na away ni G. Santiago at ni G. Enriquez. Kung anuman pong namamagitan sa kanila ay nasa kanila na ho ‘yon, ayaw ko na hong pakialaman ‘yon. Kung ano man po ang sama ng loob ni General Santiago kanina kay G. Enriquez, na tila mayroon, ay nasa sa kanila na ho ‘yon. Pero lumalabas pa rin ho dito na obligado tayong pakinggan at pagbigyan.
So, the proper time Mr. Chairman, I hope we can discuss together with other members of the committee as the good Senate President has pointed out. Because nothing, let me clarify, nothing prevents a hearing to be conducted based on a resolutions, specifically finding out sino nga ba ang mga adik, totoo ba ‘yung sinasabi dun sa dokumento na sinasabi ni G. Morales etcetera. Nothing prevents that from being done. Puwede po ‘yan gawin mamaya o bukas. May puwede mag-privilege speech at ‘yon po ‘yung basehan ng pagdinig. Pero base sa privilege speech, base sa resolusyon ‘yon po ang magiging limitasyon ng pagdinig.
Sa totoo lang, naintindihan ko ang ating chairman dahil interesado naman akong mapakinggan din, may opening sa lahat ng sinasabi ng ating mga testigo. Subalit mahirap naman po na kada pangalang babanggitin ay gagawin nating depende dun ‘yung pagdinig kung itutuloy pa o hindi na. Thank you, again I submit.