LUCHI CRUZ-VALDES (LCV): Thank you for staying with us with “The Chiefs.” Our guest tonight, as promised, Senator Francis ‘Chiz’ Escudero. Welcome back.
SENATOR CHIZ ESCUDERO (CHIZ): Magandang gabi po sa lahat ng ating tagasubaybay. Good evening! Hindi niyo ako binigyan ng option na Zoom.
LCV: Kasi mas gusto ka namin na ganito.
AMY PAMINTUAN (AP): In person.
LCV: Ang dami naming gustong tanungin sa iyo pero hindi na namin tatanungin ang tungkol kay Heart. So, we will get to sabihin na natin the most recent one. We had Senator Trillanes the other night here on “The Chiefs.” And alam mo warning ‘yan medyo pagka daw binago natin yung kanilang pension system now. Katulad ng pinaplano ni Secretary Diokno para daw naglalaro ng apoy. Ngayon dadaanin daw sa Congress. So, gusto kong tanungin sa iyo, how’s does the Congress —
CHIZ: Kailangan naman talaga dumaan sa Kongreso, Luchi. Hindi puwedeng gawin ‘yan ng hindi dumadaan sa Kongreso because it entails budget. It entails the amendment of the existing law. And Senator Trillanes would be the next court witness when it comes to, so I intend to believe that it might create problems, yes. But there’s several ways. To begin with, hindi sustainable ‘yung current pension system natin for military and uniformed personnel.
LCV: So you agree with Sec. Diokno?
CHIZ: No, it’s not definitely sustainable.
ROBY ALAMPAY (RA): Lahat naman ion ang sinasabi.
CHIZ: Dinudugo ‘yung budget natin galing sa appropriations every year which takes away money that you can use for projects, for assistance, for whatever. And for day one, the people have been looking for solutions to this. ‘Yung worry ni Senator Trillanes, puwede namang i-address iyon by doing it through a transition. Example, ang contribution ng ordinary government employee is about 9% of his or her salary. ‘Di huwag mo i-nine percent agad. Simulan mo ng 1-2 in a span of three years gawin mong, ‘di ba? 3-4% until after for certain period you reach 9%. The attrition of the military is approximately 3-5% per annum. So, you can only limit it to those entering the military, police or military and uniformed service but it will take you to at 5% in 20 years. Kaysa naman hindi mo simulant. The reform can be that to meaning without changing the rules of the game for those already in the service. You’re changing it for those who are about to enter the service.
ED LINGAO (EL): Hindi puwedeng baguhin iyong nasa serbisyo na? Hindi puwedeng galawin iyon?
CHIZ: Palaging puwede pero doon papasok ‘yung sinasabi ni Senator Trillanes because this is corrective legislation ito, Ed. Meaning it can be retroactively apply.
RA: Speaking of Senator, iyon ‘yung before we get to the correction and before we go to any legislation. Ang unang gusto kong maintindihan, how did we get to this point? Everybody agrees it’s unsustainable. Everybody I mean, Sec. Diokno, Senator Trillanes, you, everybody agrees and in fact, everybody has been saying it for years. First of all, how did we get to this point?
CHIZ: Well, you have to give it to President BBM. That he actually said it? That he actually looking at it and wants to do it. Now, how far he can achieve it? Given the warning of Senator Trillanes, I do not know. But at least he did. Bear in mind, Sec. Diokno is now the secretary of Finance that used to be DBM Secretary. I mean of all people in the cabinet of President Duterte, alam niya kung gaano kabigat at kahirap iyun pero wala siyang sinabi kung kailan siya magsasalita.
RA: Teka muna, interrupt lang kita, forward looking ka ulit. Give credit where credit is due. OK pero pipilitin ko pa rin gusto ko munang tumingin patalikod. How did we get to this point? I get your point credit to BBM is finally confronting it. But how did we get to this point?
LCV: How did we get to the point we are giving so much (voices overlapping)?
RA: —step of the way every adjustment pataas na pension.
CHIZ: Simply because no president wanted to address it and want to simply pass it on to the next president. Tinapos lang ‘yung kanya tapos hayaan mo na yung susunod. Hayaan mo na ‘yung susunod and that’s been going on for the past so many years. You have, magba-backtrack ka na lang. We tried RSBS. We tried several pension schemes and all of them failed because of corruption or otherwise you remember the problems we had with former General Garcia, if I mention his name correctly. We did some things to try to address this. Kaya lang hindi na-handle ng tama ‘yung pondo. And GSIS, so far in fairness. SSS, so far in fairness, handling the fund very well.
EL: Kasi all this time for a long, long time we are under the impression na kawawa parati mga sundalo pagdating sa benepisyo. So, which is it really? Hanggang panahon ni Gloria iyon ang reklamo.
CHIZ: Kawawa in the sense na hindi lahat napopondohan lalo na yung beterano sa sobrang laki nga kasi? Pero hindi kawawa in terms of the face value of the amount they supposed to receive. Tandan mo naka benchmark ‘yang NEDA pagtinaasan natin suweldo colonel, ‘yung nag retire na colonel iyun din ang matatanggap niyang pension. Hindi lang iyun one rank higher pa sila pag-retire. ‘Pag nag-retire ka na, ‘di ba, (inaudible) ang retirement mo, ang pension mo. So, hindi api on paper pero dahil nga sa sobrang laki na hindi napopondohan ang lahat lalong-lalo na iyong mga beterano. ‘Yung mga beterano mas malaki pa problema dahil imbes na bumaba ‘yung bilang ng beterano natin, dumadami.
AP: So, ‘yun nga yung tanong? ‘Yun nga ‘yung tanong. Kasi ang gusto ni Sec. Diokno, bilisan ‘yung legislation. Kasi it’s warning of a fiscal collapse which can happen any, well in the near future ‘yan, ano? And you are saying, the reform can only happen gradually if we don’t want that kind of unrest.
CHIZ: Well, Sec. Diokno realizes that this cannot be addressed overnight. ‘Yung Maharlika Fund na minadali nila sa Kamara, halos hindi mo na makilala ngayon pagkatapos namin repasuhin sa Senado. So ganoon din ‘to. So ‘pag minadali mo ‘to, baka mamaya half-baked at mas malaking problemang kailangan natin kaharapin. Sec. Diokno knows that he doesn’t need to fund anything anyway. And that’s what they’ve been doing for the past so many years and decades, and ‘yun naman ang pinopondohan natin. May account, may utang. May kailangan bayaran, pero hindi naman ibig sabihin non tatanggalan mo ng serbisyo ‘yung lahat ng departamento para lang malagay ‘to. At the end of the day, governance is about allocating scarce resources. We’ve had scarce resources from day one.
AP: By legislation, anong doable ngayon? Kasi sabi ni Senator Trillianes sa amin, meron daw siyang pino-prose noon na dapat daw imbis na dinoble ‘yung salary. Tinaasan na lang ‘yung allowance para kung saka-sakali, yung indexation nandon lang sa dati pa rin niyang ano. Sabi niya, hindi daw pinayagan ni President Duterte. At in fact, he’s blaming Sec. Diokno mismo dahil bakit daw nag-inrease hindi naman daw nagreklamo. Bakit daw pinayagan?
CHIZ: If ever it would increase happened, a portion of the increase happened during President Nonoy’s time, a portion of the increase happened during President Duterte’s time, which affected also the policemen, in the case of President Duterte. In the case of President Noynoy, it was only the military. ‘Di ba, ang joke nga ni President, ni PRRD noon, dahil madalas daw dalawa naman ‘yung pamilya, dapat doble ‘yung sweldo para—
AP: Kaya na-double? Kaya nga na-double. So papaano? What’s doable at this point? Ano ang doable by legislation?
CHIZ: Well, number one, you definitely cannot bring the salaries down. That’s not an option. Hindi mo na puwedeng ibaba yung sweldo nila.
AP: It’s under the Labor Code?
CHIZ: They’re not in the Labor Code, because they’re working in the government. Pero, as a principle, you cannot take back what you’ve given already. But what you can impose is a mandatory contribution. Again, as I said earlier, kung ang ordinaryong empleyado ng gobyerno, opisyal ng gobyerno, binabawasan, kinakaltasan na siyam na porsiyento, as employee’s share sa GSIS. Then we can start below 9% until we reach 9%. Hindi man masagot lahat ng pinapangakong pention at retirement, at least part of it will be addressed.
LCV: Kayo mag-alboroto. ‘Yun nga ang sinasabi ni Senator Trillianes. Subukan niyo lang daw para lang kayong naglalaro ng apoy.
CHIZ: Alam mo itong bagong batas na pinasa, sa totoo lang, napikon ako sa ilang opsiyal ng AFP dahil akala mo kung sino sila kung mag-demand. “We need this number of generals. 57 dapat! 56.” At the end of the day, they didn’t even have a computation in so far as what it would cost from the government. They just wanted to say what they wanted. But, the guidance to the majority, apparently coming from the PLLO was that, it’s OK. Tapos ngayon, magrereklamo sila na fiscal collapse pero ayoko na pag-isipan masyado. And I think, and I hope, that before PBBM talked about this, and before Sec. Diokno made a presentation that they did their homework already. Made the proper consultation with the higher ups.
RA: Can I ask you, in general, about homework? Na because we’re talking about- apart from this nabanggit mo nga itong Maharlika Fund and it’s the same observation from a lot of people na parang “ano ba naman ‘yan?” I mean, it didn’t even take technocrats and people debating in Congress for many people in the public to ask that. Pero, parang hilaw. Parang, nauna ‘yung ano tas tsaka parang submit muna natin ‘tas tsaka natin pag-isipan. But your general impression on the staff work in Malacanang. Particularly where they come to Congress with specific proposals?
CHIZ: Well, as far as I know, the Maharlika Investment Fund—the MIF—was initiated by Speaker Romualdez. It was not a bill that came from Malacanang na nanggaling mismo sa kanila. Na-file sa House, cinertify lang ng Malacanang. Pero, hindi nanggaling sa kanila. Hindi napagusapan sa LEDAC iyan, to my understanding. But, in so far as in this pension bill is concerned ididikit ko na sa Maharlika.
Some sovereign wealth funds are created precisely to answer their problems and respect to pension funds. So, iyong investment fund nila doon papunta talaga doon at iyon lang. Para doon lang talaga. So, that’s an option, too but that’s not in the Maharlika Investment Fund. That’s not in the bill creating Maharlika Investment Corporation.
LCV: Assuming nga na matuloy ang Maharlika Investment Fund, is it a good answer to this problem?
CHIZ: It may be. But it will not be addressed soon, too. Because whatever investment they make it is a paper gain kung tumaas man ang shares of stock. They can only realize the actual gain if they sell it. The question is, will they sell it? In other countries, they are more advance, they are more technical. They are more studious to their homework. Alam na nila roughly kung anong taon magkakaroon ng gap katulad natin ngayon. So, they gear their investments to 15 years from now, para ganito ang kikitain natin.
RA: Basic question about the Maharlika Fund because parang iyong politicians, particularly iyong mga congressmen, we asked them parang they skirt around the term but nabanggit ninyo iyong, “pagkatapos ninyong dinaanan, ibang-iba na.” It’s no longer a sovereign wealth fund, ‘di ba?
CHIZ: To begin with, they mix it up. Pinaghalo nila iyong fund sa korporasyon in one bill and they are using it in the same paragraph, in the same section na naka slash lang na ganoon which cannot be. A fund is different from a corporation; totally different which we try to clarify when we were trying to clean it up. It is not yet over; it is not yet finished but it is in the process of being finished and cleaned up. Kasi nga tingin yata nila iyong fund at iyong korporasyon ay iisa. Isini-suggest ko nga kay Sec. Diokno when we had a discussion. Why not just create a fund? Then you can control it para it’s like an item in the budget. Ganoon lang. Mas simple pa.
LCV: You are more for the fund?
CHIZ: I have no objections to having a fund to be invested and this is what is doing right now. And NDC is investing in various businesses. NDC is investing in various businesses. NDC is not just buying shares of stock- they are not authorized but they can invest in several private businesses partner and earn from it.
LCV: As opposed to if it is a corporation?
CHIZ: If it is a corporation, there are many limitations and hindrances. For example, iyong composition na lang ng board of directors nila. They wanted to established a Php100-B fund initially. Php50-B coming from Landbank, Php25-B coming from DBP and yet they have one representative each in the 15-man board. If it is a corporation, it should represent their respective holdings. I-merge mo man, 75% dapat ng 15-man board galing sa DBP at Landbank pero dalawa lamang ang kinatawan doon idagdag mo pa si Sec. Diokno na chairman ng Landbank, ‘di tatlo lamang sila. 3/15 is only 20% and yet they provide 75% of the capital which is clearly not congruent with the principles of the corporation.
AP: Ang hindi pa malinaw ay iyong participation ng Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas fund kasi ipinagpipilitan din iyan ni Ben Diokno and well hindi lang nagsasalita masyado si Medalla-
CHIZ: Hindi na sila kasama.
AP: Iyong version ng Senate talagang hindi na kasama.
CHIZ: Yes, hindi sila kasama at kung pumasok man iyong opportunity na iyon o availability na iyon it is only after we are able to fund the Php100-B to begin with authorized capital stock of the Bangko Sentral which we have not done yet.
AP: Specially with what is happening now in the US. Iyong bank failures doon. With what is happening in Europe medyo delikado iyon at nag-aalala sila sa BSP proposal na iyan.
CHIZ: Well, to digress a bit I don’t think we will face the same problems because the reserve imposed by the Bangko Sentral for the longest time has been above 10%. So, iyong reserve requirement ng Bangko Sentral is 10-12%. Ang reserve requirement sa America maraming 0%. Ang reserve requirement sa Europe is only 1%. So, meaning iyong idiniposito mo na Php1-M ang kailangan lang nilang itago ay 1% sa Europe. Iyong idiniposito mong $1 sa American Bank wala silang kailangang itago doon lahat iyon puwede nilang i-invest, ipahiram. Kaya kapag magwi-withdraw ka ng pera may advance notice ka, “magwi-withdraw ako bukas ha ng $10,000.” “Sir, next week na lang.” Kasi, nakaplaced na iyong mga investments nila.
EL: So, in the end kung pumasa man ito sa Senado it will be a completely different bill compared to—
CHIZ: I said that from the beginning it will not be the same shape, size, color, or form because that it was passed it clearly will not pass the Senate. It will not pass scrutiny.
EL: Parang Cha-Cha iyan.
CHIZ: Example, Ed Php100-B fund ito pero iyong penalties na inilagay for corruption sa Maharlika Investment Fund is below the Plunder Law.
RA/EL/LCV: Yes.
CHIZ: Iyon na lang parang saan galing ito. In fact, they limited themselves to fines where they could have simply added a simple provision that says this is on top of whatever liabilities, any official committing graft and corruption may have under the existing law.
LCV: Wala daw kasing papayag kapag inilagay iyon. Sinong papayag?
CHIZ: May ganoong solusyon naman, so we are trying to clean it up.
LCV: Isa pang hindi malinaw diyan e who will run the fund? Kasi, ang sinasabi ng mga bankers, kung susundin daw iyong mga banking practice, 2% daw nung pondo mo iyan ang ibabayad mo sa magpapatakbo ng pondo. Tama ba iyon?
CHIZ: No, 2% iyong administrative cost, hindi maliwanag iyon kaya isa iyon sa mga nilinis namin.
AP: Sobrang laki, oo.
CHIZ: Ano ito 2% per annum o 2% iyong seed money. Puwede ba 2% iyong seed money? And beyond that dapat self-liquidating na kayo. Kung kailangan ninyo, pumunta kayo sa Kongreso. Dadagdagan ng Kongreso iyong pera pero hindi puwedeng 2% every year noong fund dahil kapag ginawa mo iyan, in 50 years ubos na.
AP: So, ano nga pala?
CHIZ: Self-sustained na sila pagkatapos nun.
LCV: Sa Senate, mag mag-bicam pa kayo ano?
CHIZ: Yes, but let them argue but the problem is there is nothing to argue against it, so, for me at least. Because even the economic manager when we had the long discussion, agreed.
LCV: Bakit nga ba naging ganyan ang proseso para namang haosiao?
RA: Sinisimplehan ko na nga ang tanong kanina? Staff work ang sinabi ko kanina.
AP: Within the span of three weeks
LCV: Hindi kasi parang bigla lahat parang bakit mayroong ganyang sovereign fund tapos parang sinasabi na suportado ito ni Pangulong Bongbong. Dapat di’ba by the end of the year tuloy na iyan tapos biglang makikita mo talaga na within three weeks nagbago na nang nagbago ang anyo at iyon na nga it is totally unrecognizable?
CHIZ: But cleaner and better.
RA: Does it still have a potential impact; does it still have a clear mission? Or if it is, not to be cynical about it at this point, space-saving just from the original proponents?
CHIZ: No, there is some value in it. For example, aside from pension ginagawa ang sovereign wealth fund. For example like UAE, nauubusan na sila ng langis, so they want future generations to be able to face the windfall from oil that this generation has experienced.
RA: Windfall from the oil?
CHIZ: From the oil. Kumita na sila from oil.
RA/LCV: Tayo, anong meron tayo?
EL: Mayroon tayong wind.
AP: May wind tower ata tayo.
CHIZ: To fund a budget deficit, is also one of the purposes. So, we wanted to clarify that. In our case, one of our discussions was to invest in green technologies because there is so much available money out there, so far as green technology is concerned and we can benefit from that. They can invest through us and prioritize green.
RA: Iyon ang wind na sinasabi ko.
CHIZ: Iyon ang wind, walang fall.
AP: Sino nga ang magpapatakbo?
CHIZ: Well, under the proposed bill we will handle it. The fund itself would be managed by an outsourced third party to be reviewed by the members of the board.
AP: Non-government kasi iyan ang sinasabi ng mga investment banker. First thing we want to know who will win the fund.
CHIZ: One thing they must overcome by is the income. If Landbank and DBP is investing here they should have a return of their money. Now, if they invest long, when it will come in? Number two, if they are simply investing GS in government securities, they will get 6% per annum. So, they must get something bigger than 6% but they ate getting bigger than 6%. Then, why not borrow and spend it on and spend it on whatever they want to spend on? It is only 6% rather than giving a higher percentage.
LCV: Actually, talagang umikot na ng umikot iyan pero iyong diskusyon naming iikot pa ulit.
AP: Welcome back to “The Chiefs,” still with us Senator Chiz Escudero.
CHIZ: Parang wala tayong na-resolve pala?
AP: Wala nga. Malabo pa rin. Pero gusto namin makarami ng topic.
LCV: Na-resolve nga natin na magulo.
AP: Gusto nga namin makarami ng topic. Isa pa ring magulo, masalimuot na topic.
EL: Wala pa ring na-resolve.
AP: Mukhang hindi pa rin ma-resolve, Charter Change. Anong status in the Senate?
CHIZ: It hasn’t been voted upon in plenary. Senator Robin the chairman of the Committee on Constitutional Amendments is still doing his public consultations. But his direction is towards Constituent Assembly. The House recently passed a resolution and I think a bill on Con-con.
AP: Con-Con, yes.
CHIZ: And also, a budget for it if I recall correctly P5 billion. But the House should look at it again because there is a Supreme Court decision that says. One, you cannot put a time frame or timetable with a Con-Con. The Con-Con is free to decide what to take up, when to finish it, and what to do with it. Hindi mo puwedeng sabihin five months Con-Con tapos na ito.
AP: Six months sabi ni Rufus Rodriguez.
LCV: Six months.
CHIZ: You cannot do that there is a Supreme Court decision to that effect already.
AP: Hindi si Rufus si Richard.
LCV: Si Rufus ang sabi ‘di ba. Hindi si Rufus din sinabi niya.
RA: But it’s also in the bill.
AP: Yes, six months.
CHIZ: You cannot also limit the topics that a Con-Con can take up. Hindi mo puwedeng sabihin economic provisions lang.
LCV: Economic lang.
AP: Kaya inamin na nila ‘yan.
CHIZ: That’s the basic difference between a Con-Con and a Con-Ass. A Con-Ass you can. The problem with the Con-ass would be this and as a lawyer it’s a concern as a member of the Senate, it’s a concern. Nakalagay sa constitution kasi nakalimutan nilang amyendahan ‘yung amendatory clause na joint voting.
LCV: I think when they made it, parliamentary nasa isip niya.
CHIZ: No, no we had a consensus, Ma’am Luchi. You can look at up in the Con-Con debates. We had a consensus na unicameral. Noong nagbotohan silang lahat, dalawang pabor sa unicameral nasa banyo. Literally, I tell you not literally.
AP: Talaga?
RA: Sino ‘yon?
CHIZ: I forgot.
LCV: Sino ‘yon?
CHIZ: Noong biglang galit.
RA: May lag pala sa banyo may lag.
CHIZ: So, natalo yung unicameral naging bicameral and since they were not doing it chronologically, they already assume na unicameral ‘yung amendatory clause nakalimutan nilang balikan. Now my problem is the word of the Constitution is clear na hindi separate voting. Even if Congress passes a resolution, a law that says separate voting nothing prevents a person from questioning before the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court will say, hindi when the provision is clear we don’t need to interpret it we just implement it. By that time touch move na ang Senado.
EL: Is it clear talaga if it doesn’t say it is joint, you’re separately is it there for assumed that it is jointly?
CHIZ: Yes, hindi niya dinistinguish na both Houses. In other provisions kasi, Ed, nilagay both Houses voting separately.
LCV: Bakit hindi mo questionin?
AP: That’s the point.
RA: But this is further I raise the question something that we asked earlier. Why is, usually we would associate con-ass with the House of Representatives precisely because we have the numbers. Bakit sila Con-Con ngayon tapos ngayon si Senator Robin Padilla ang nag-aano ng Con-Ass? Precisely it always brings up the question of madi-dilute ba ‘yung boto ng mga senador?
CHIZ: Well, ang problema rin kasi I’ll digress a bit, Robin. Ang problema rin kasi ‘yung first five, ika nga, sa mga distrito, sa mga probinsya nasa Congress ‘yan. ‘Di ba tumakbo silang congressman sila ‘yung bida dun sa lugar nila, sila yung sikat at sila ‘yung kilala. Kung mag-Con-Con ka na mag-e-elect ka by district sino ang iboboto mo? ‘Yung second stringers.” Quote and unquote. I mean, kasi ‘yung mga first five—
RA: Quote and quote ‘yon talaga.
CHIZ: ‘Yung first five nakaupo na. So, kung sino pa ‘yung gagawa ng Saligang-Batas ‘yon pa ‘yung second five. ‘Yung gumagawa ng ordinaryong batas, ‘yung first five. ‘Yung first five hindi gugustuhing sumali sa Con-Con kasi they cannot benefit from it and they will be affected by it. So, ayaw. Iba na lang para kasama pa rin kami. ‘Di ba, that’s a valid concern. But you’re right it’s inverse now. But I guess it’s part of this strategy, the technique that we don’t have to be there. But that’s the practical decision because if they form part of it, if they touch political, they cannot benefit from it. If they extend the term, if they remove term limits that cannot benefit from it. But Con-Con it’s possible.
EL: The speaker now says that they’re open he’s not saying that they’re for but they’re open to Con-Ass. What are the chances in the Senate?
CHIZ: Ed, as you have seen you’ve covered government long enough it’s a day-to-day thing. You can say this so that it moves forward change it back again and change it up all over again at some point in time. The important thing is that it’s moving forward and discussions are being made. ‘Yung sinasabi lang nila na respect the House and take it up, of course not.
LCV: Because ‘yon ang sinasabi nila para—
CHIZ: Parliamentary courtesy dictates that you do not tell what to do and we do not tell you what to do. You pass what you want to pass, we will pass what we want to pass. You will prioritize what you want to prioritize, we will prioritize what we want to prioritize. Courtesy never meant you take up what we pass. Hindi ko alam kung saang libro nanggaling ‘yon sorry.
AP: I like that.
CHIZ: Sa tagal ko sa Kongreso—
LCV: Parang ano, no but what is the mood in the Senate?
CHIZ: It’s not being talked about that much. In fact, in most of the hearings of Senator Padilla very few senators attend. I think senators, if at all, would be addressing it on the floor and not in committee. But if you talk about the feel—the fact that nobody is attending and nobody is really pushing for it actively—means, at the very least, there indifference.
AP: Well, ang sabi ng businessman i-pass niyo na lang daw ‘yang iba pang tax reform, ‘yung iba pang legislation, the ease of doing business.
CHIZ: Hindi lang naman isa pwede namang gawing sabay-sabay. Ayaw niyo nun mas sulit maraming ginagawang trabaho ang Kongreso at Senado puwede namang pagsabay-sabayin.
AP: Yeah, what do you think do you agree with them? Sabi naipasa na naman ‘yang Public Service Act, Anti-Liberalization bakit pa raw magcha-chacha?
CHIZ: Well, even business has been changing its mind and position.
AP: Ayon ang sabi naman ni Rufus.
CHIZ: To be fair. But what’s good thing about this is that at least for the first time they’re trying to do Cha-Cha in the first semester of a president’s term. If you look back at all of the Cha-Chas that have been pursued we’re always done in the second semester of the president’s term which gives a lot of racists, a lot of questions and doubts na ang intensyon nito ay i-extend ganoon-ganoon. So, sinisimulan ngayon at least it’s a change, it’s a difference.
RA: But your thoughts as well I don’t want to live that point in Public Service Act, Liberalization, and so on. The argument na ayon naman kita mo parang we don’t need to change the charter and do all of that. But now on the other side of it they’re saying oo pero tignan mo noong pinasa yung Public Service Act ngayon mayroon ng mga nagpupuntang Supreme Court already questioning that’s what we’re trying to head off. Do you agree with that concern?
CHIZ: No, because even if we amend the constitution there will still be people that will question the provision as it is written, approved, or pass in a referendum. For me, is it even relevant at this point? Let’s talk about the media. Under the constitution, it is limited to a hundred percent but CNN is in my bedroom, BBC is in my bedroom, and I don’t think even 0.01% is owned by a Filipino. So, is it even relevant?
LCV: And online. Oh my.
CHIZ: Is it really relevant? If you get news from TikTok, Instagram, from Facebook is it even relevant to the constitution limits it? Is there a need to amend it? I don’t really see the need so far as that is concerned with writs that in you can practically own for 25, or 50 years. Is there even a reason to go through this divisive process when foreigners?
LCV: And expensive raw.
AP: Hindi ‘yung ibang sectors huwag media.
CHIZ: Like what?
RA: No, but even with the media. Ownership is still something that’s relevant to talk about. We still need to talk about what I mean we will have the capital to infuse money for example in this particular sector.
CHIZ: Yes, but I said you can locate in Singapore, you can locate in another country, and then stream everything here. With Zoom, with pandemic, they don’t even have to be like here live on stage.
LCV: Nagparamdam na naman.
AP: We have the Mining Act.
CHIZ: No, we are talking of natural resources now they have financial technical agreements wherein if the foreigner invests then he first gets his capital before the person gets any share and they follow the basic rule of 60-40 or 70-30 depending on industry then they will be able to work it out. If you want to follow what China is doing where everything is owned by the state then issue a certificate of leasehold similar to a TCT that’s more stable instead of a simple, lease agreement that can have a secondary market. You can borrow against it which will give you the right of a lease for 25 to 50 years which is stable and any businessman would do that because as I said for example in China everything is owned by the state and hawak na nila leasehold lang naman. And let us work for them. Now there are ways and ways if you really want to do it.
AP: Well, sabi ni Richard Gomez, kasi tinanong namin well ang sabi ni President Marcos he’s against it. Sabi niya siyempre alangan naman umamin ‘yan na he’s for it.
LCV: Wala naman daw presidente na pumapayag.
AP: What’s your feel about it?
CHIZ: For me, if you really want to do it limit it to certain types of plans only, conditioned upon an inventory that’s part of the amendment na ito lang ‘yon. Limiting it for example to commercial, industrial, not to agricultural, not to mining, not to residential and let’s start there puwede naman ‘yon kasi ‘yon naman ang interes ng negosyante. Condominium units now can own as much as 60-40 can you tell me sino ba ang nagbabantay n’on?
Let’s say, there are 10 units in a building 60-40, 40 lang dapat ang foreigner kapag nagkabentahan ‘yan, nire-register ba ang bentahan? May nagbabantay ba? May nahuli na ba? May kinasuhan na ba na nag-violate ng 60-40 rule? Who knows all 10 units are owned by a foreigner by now they’re just transferring it. So at the end of the day, it’s been happening anyway.
RA: I have a question not about the constitution per se and most to. I have a question with Senator Robinhood Padilla. I mean your honest assessment kasi bilid ako siya lang ang humaharap ngayon sa House of Representatives ‘di ba, by himself. Really confident and credibly holding the fort on and representing the Senate. But your honest assessment kasi hindi naman kaila sa mga tao when he was appointed chair of the Senate Committee on Constitutional Amendments, nagtaas lahat ng kilay ng mga tao parang hindi naman ‘yan abogado does he understand this. But your assessment on his performance so far as chair of Senate Committee on Constitutional Amendments?
CHIZ: Not only as chair of the committee also as a member of the Senate. Masipag at magaling si Robin. I think people are surprised because they diminished his capacity and capable early on. Pero kung binigyan siya ng tamang pagtingin at pagtrato, they should not be surprised if they gave him a fair shake. But nobody gave him a fair shake tingin nila porket artista hindi kaya ganito, ganito may pre-conceived notions na sila but I didn’t have any pre-conceived notion when I started working with him in the Senate and he is very studious, he studies hard, he asks the right questions, he asks questions and he speaks very well and expresses himself very well in Filipino at that.
EL: Balikan ko lang ‘yung Con-Con at Con-Ass kasi si Robin Padilla has been pushing Con-Ass and because of that the House is saying okay we’re open in considering it but is it even, are they barking at the wrong tree? Would it make a difference with the Senators if it’s Con-Con or Con-Ass?
CHIZ: Again, I think for a large part Senators are in different trip towards it. Con-Ass o Con-Con, wala pa kami doon ako wala pa doon hindi ko pa seryosong kinukunsidera ‘yon. But on the part of the House, I don’t blame them for saying okay na rin ‘yong Con-ass sa amin basta halika, tumakbo lang. In fact, they are talking about a joint hearing-
LCV: Yes. Magkakaroon daw nun.
CHIZ: No. Ma’am Luchi again, I don’t know where are they coming from, I’m just too old in the House, I’ve been in Congress for too long. When I was a congressman, I filed a bill to convert our municipality into a city. So, it has to be approved by the House, ako ang nag-attend noon and some congressmen, (inaudible) of local government it has to be approved by the Senate mag-iimbita ka rin ng Senador dahil ‘yong committee chair ng senador to go to Sorsogon to approve the bill converting the municipality into a city. That does not make it a joint hearing.
AP: It’s just part of—
CHIZ: It was a hearing called by the Senate Committee of Local Government attended by a member of the House because he would have to host dahil siya ‘yong author ‘yong committee at ‘yong senador. By no stretch of the imagination can you count on and consider that as a joint hearing of the Senate and the House?
LCV: OK na na-mention mo na rin lang na Sorsogon Governor ka dati, matanong kita sa EO 138. Ayan na parang ito ba’y—
EVERYBODY: Devolution.
CHIZ: In-amend, ‘yan ‘yong kay President Duterte?
LCV: Yes.
CHIZ: When it was passed, that was personal interpretation and before I became governor so when I became governor, they were trying to implement it. Galing ako sa Finance Committee sa Senado so inisa-isa ko ‘yong mga denevolve nilang function. The total amount of devolved function they give to local government units was Php1.4-T. The total amount of additional IRA given the Garcia-Mandanas Ruling was only about Php780-B. So doble ‘yung pinasa nilang trabaho doon sa windfall na nakuha naming at bakit mo tatawaging windfall ‘yon kung dinagdagan mo naman ‘yong trabaho.
LCV: Ayan na naman ‘yung “windfall.” Talagang word of the day.
CHIZ: Paano mo matatawag na dagdag kung dinagdagan mo ‘yong trabaho? ‘Pag walang dagdag na trabaho ‘yon talga bonus para kang tumama sa lotto ‘di ba ang dami mong puwedeng gawin, ibigay sa lugar mo. Dinagdagan nila ‘yong trabaho, doble pa so bale wala rin. So how did we handle it in Sorsogon for example well DBM was pinning down our throats we have to see it in our appropriations ordinance which begs the question because we should be independent and autonomous. Pero kapag wala ‘yong sa budget mo, sa appropriations ordinance mo hindi aaprubahan ng DBM. That’s what I’ve been trying to change now since I’ve been back to Senate tinatanggal ko lahat ng restrictions na ‘yon. It’s our money, our IRA, came from local revenues. Anong say ng DBM d’on? May ayuda, may assistance galing sa National Government, fine you dictate you give as a menu but this is our money, we get to decide how to spend it we know better than you do. Coming from Manila, ni hindi niyo nakakausap ‘yong mga kababayan naming dito kami dapat ang nagde-decide nun. Anyway, we must put the items in the budget otherwise hindi maaprubahan and the other items we need we cannot actually implement.
RA: Oo tapos paninindigan niyo na lang?
CHIZ: Hindi. Lalagay mo lang singkwenta mil, bat ang liit lang? Magsu-supplemental na lang kami kulang pa kasi.
LCV: Thank you for the supplementals.
AP: Nire-review raw ngayon ni President Marcos. What are your suggestions in this review? Kasi mukhang ipapasa niya sa Congress ‘yong mga
CHIZ: They should not devolve additional functions. I’ll give you an example irrigation.
AP: Hindi. Puwede bang bawasan?
CHIZ: No. President Marcos already practically left implementing that EO because in the proposed budget for 2023 if I’m not mistaken, if I remember correctly, he allocated about Php15-B for education which was zero in 2022. So binabawi na rin naman niya ‘yong mga function through the budget. I think he’s speaking through the budget by saying na hindi naman talaga devolved. Education, may pondo na para sa classroom, dinevolved lahat ‘yon. Naglagay din ng pondo for construction of school buildings about Php10-B. So binawi na rin naman.
RA: It becomes more and more of a windfall.
CHIZ: But the EO is still there. We must remove the EO, they made us create so many offices. When I became Governor, I abolished the cooperative office, why? May CDA ka naman. So pagka-abolish na pagka-abolish ko at may pinasa ang Kongreso noong wala na ako sa Senado, mandating me to create a cooperative’s office.
LCV: Ano ba ‘to?
CHIZ: Now you can fund it if you want from the National Government, I will appoint the person there but don’t make me spend my own money from local revenue from this.
EL: Pero kasi if you back up kasi doon sa Local Government Code in Section 17 it enumerates all the powers devolve to the local government so baka hindi lang ‘yong EO 138 ang kailangan niyong tingnan pati ‘yung LGU.
AP: Legislation.
CHIZ: No. I think you are referring to section 16 the general welfare clause, meaning broad powers ng local government ‘yon on how they can serve their constituents but some were still retained by the national government given that IRA is only a percentage of national income, national revenue. Percentage lang naman ang nakukuha naming, hindi naman ‘yong buo. In fact, ang problema mo ‘yong taxing. Limited ang taxing powers ng probinsya, mas malaki ang taxing powers ng city pero ‘yong computation kung may babaguhin man sa Local Government Code, Ed, ‘yong share. Kaya maraming nagko-convert into city, mas kaunti ‘yong naghahati-hati sa pain ng city. There are approximately 1,500 municipalities and there are only approximately 150 cities but they get approximately 30% each together with the province. So, mas kaunti ang denominator, mas malaki ‘yung share.
LCV: OK. Maraming application
CHIZ: And yet their taxing powers are broader than municipalities.
AP: So, If you’re going to propose reforms to President Marcos anong masasabi mo by way of devolving?
CHIZ: Ako po kasi, sa tagal ko sa politika at gobyerno natuto na ako na ‘wag kang manguna kapag tinanong ka sumagot ka na lang.
AP: O, kapag tinanong ka. Kaya what might you suggest being a former governor.
CHIZ: I think he would know because he was a former governor too. He would understand and know the many restrictions the financial government imposes on local government units.
EL: Magaling sumagot.
CHIZ: But he would be in a, he served as a governor longer than I did.
AP: Pero national official na siya ngayon syempre gusto din niya malaman ‘yong sintemyento ng mga ano.
CHIZ: Well, puwede niyang ipatawag ‘yong pamangkin niya. Governor ngayon ‘di ba. No. Meaning, he has experience, he started out as vice governor that became a governor, and he has a lot of experiences so far as the local government.
LCV: So, what do you see is the future now this EO? I mean of the devolution.
CHIZ: I think he will take back a major part of it. I think that’s the direction he’s heading towards because he met with LMP, ULAP and that is the position of LMP and ULAP na OA ang binaba niyong function sa amin kulang na ‘yong pera. Abonado pa kami sa pinapagawa niyo sa amin.
LCV: Mukhang unanimous naman ‘yang ganyan.
CHIZ: LMP at ULAP are unanimous when it comes to that.
LCV: All right.
EL: Luchi, ‘di ba may itatanong—
LCV: Ako? Sabi ko hindi ko na itatanong. Tanungin na lang natin siya pagkatapos.
RA: Hintayin niyo na lang sa Facebook post.
LCV: Thank you so much, Senator Chiz Escudero.