PINKY WEBB (PW): You are watching “The Source” on CNN Philippines. I’m Pinky Webb our source today, Senator Chiz Escudero. Senator, welcome to “The Source” it’s been a while. Thank you so much for your time.
SENATOR CHIZ ESCUDERO (CHIZ): Pinky, magandang umaga. Sa ating televiewers at tagasubaybay, magandang umaga. Karangalan kong maging bahagi ng “The Source”.
PW: It’s good to see you, Sir. So ang dami nating kailangang pag-usapan. Unahin ko na po itong Ayungin Shoal, I want to get your thoughts on this.
CHIZ: Ay, madami.
PW: Unang-una ‘tong sa Ayungin Shoal, Sir. How do you feel about this? Number one, China insists that the Philippines committed to tow away the Sierra Madre. No Filipino officials have actually confirmed this. President Bongbong Marcos says that even if hypothetically there is such an agreement, he is rescinding it now. ‘Yon ho ba na sinabi ng Pangulo na walang official na nagko-confirm nito, should these ones and for all put an end to this so-called commitment, Sir?
CHIZ: Yes, Pinky. That should have put an end to the issue. Nagsalita ang Pangulo sa ilalim ng Saligang-Batas, he is the chief architect of our foreign policy and previous presidents could not have enacted a policy that irrepealable, that is unchangeable. The current sitting president is the chief architect of our foreign policy, if he says kung mayroon man, I hereby rescind that and that is it. Ang nakakalungkot lang, Pinky, dahil sa sinasabi ng bansang China na hindi naman natin kakampi sa issue na ‘yan ay nag-aaway-away tayo, nagtuturuan tayo tsaka nagsisisihan tayo. Nagsalita na ang Pangulo, that should have put an end to it. Hindi na mahalaga kung sino pa ang nagsabi, sinong nangako, totoo nga ba ‘yan o hindi ang importante sa kasalukuyang foreign policy at polisiya ng bansa hindi aalisin ang Sierra Madre diyan.
PW: So, para po sa inyo ‘wag na natin pag-usapan itong sinasabi ng China na may commitment; though sabihin na whether there is a commitment or not it doesn’t matter, Sir because the President said I’m rescinding it. Plain ang simple.
CHIZ: I one hundred percent agree, Pinky. Ang nakakalungkot nga ay nag-aaway-away pa tayo, nagtuturuan pa tayo at sumasakay tayo ika-nga sa salitang binibitawan pa ng bansang China na hindi na po dapat. Kung may pakikinggan man tayo, ‘yong kababayan natin at ‘wag ‘yong, ika nga, katunggali natin sa issue na ito.
PW: ‘Yung sabi niyo nga po kanina which actually leads me to my next question, the President is the architect of the foreign policy, of our foreign policy ang tanong ko ho, after that statement of President Bongbong Marcos should the DFA issue a formal statement? Kailangan ho ba siguro i-formalize ito, ipadala sa China that there is no such commitment and even go as far as President said if there was, I rescind it now. Is a formal written statement from the DFA, is that something they should do?
CHIZ: It is not necessary, Pinky, in accordance with past tradition and practice in so far as foreign policy is concerned because every word that the President utters from his mouth is actually policy, whether domestic or foreign policy. Kaya dapat maging maingat ang sinumang nakaupong Pangulo dahil bawat salitang namumutawi sa kanyang bibig ay ikokonsiderang polisiya sa parte ng isang bansa. But not prevents the DFA from formalizing it, Pinky, but to my mind that statement is enough, that was carried and that reached China, and that came straight from the mouth of the President himself.
PW: So, it’s not necessary but do you think, do you suggest that it should be done? That is better na lang that it would be done?
CHIZ: Yes, perhaps, Pinky. It might help because according to China whatever or whoever promises that it will be removed is well documented, although verbally made according to them. Well, this is verbally made this should be documented by the Philippines for future reference at least, Pinky. But for now, the word of the President is enough and I believe the DFA can issue the corresponding memoranda or the corresponding policies under the letterhead of the DFA carrying the policy statement uttered by the President in an interview after he was asked about that issue. But let me go a step further, Pinky, during the budget deliberation I will propose the inclusion in the budget of an item to actually build a structure already on that island. China built a structure even if it is contested by the Philippines. I don’t think anything can prevent us from at least allocating funds in order to give the President flexibility to make the accommodations in that shoal more acceptable to our soldiers who are there-
PW: Sa Ayungin? You’re basically saying?
CHIZ: Instead of living in a dilapidated and old ship.
PW: So ang sinasabi niyo po Senator Chiz, let’s build a structure there already in Ayungin Shoal dahil medyo sira-sira na po si BRP Sierra Madre? You want to put a budget for this. How much, Sir?
CHIZ: Yes, Pinky. Initially, we are looking at a Php100-M because there are items in the budget, Pinky, that the President may or may not implement depending on the availability of resources, depending on the conditions in relation to our foreign relations with other countries but the President cannot do that, should he decide to do so sometime next year if there is no budgetary allocation. At the very least, Pinky, this is not designed–this proposal, Pinky—is not designed to anger China or bring us closer to the brink. This is designed to give the President flexibility to act as the chief architect of our foreign policy as he dims fit. Otherwise, would have to wait another year if he decides to do so sometime next year without any budget cover.
PW: Sir, saan pong department papasok itong budget na ‘to? Itong Php100-M for the structure in Ayungin Shoal?
CHIZ: Depende, Pinky. Puwedeng sa DPWH, puwede rin sa Department of National Defense, pero para sa akin kung ako ang tatanungin mo mas gusto ko sa DPWH para hindi masyadong giyera ‘yong parang layunin natin dito. Kung ilalagay natin ang budget sa Department of National Defense o sa AFP total naman basta infrastructure ang pinag-uusapan, DPWH ang nag-i-implement. Halimbawa na lamang ang mga classroom natin although DepEd budget ‘yan DPWH pa rin ang nag-i-implement dahil structure ‘yan, infrastructure ‘yan.
PW: I understand. I understand that it is infrastructure but when we start to improve military post as suggested by AFP Chief General Brawner, hindi po pumapasok ‘yan sa DPWH, hindi po ba?
CHIZ: Not necessarily, Pinky. It depends on where the fund is coming from. For example, when I was a governor in our province, the DPWH implemented the construction of brigade camps. The construction of battalion camps depends on where the money is coming from, whether it’s DPWH or DND, it will in any case bid it out to private contractors, Pinky.
PW: Pero ang para sa inyo, what is it? It softens the idea of the whole thing kapag DPWH?
CHIZ: At least civilian, Pinky. Kahit naman ang China umiiwas din naman sa direktang confrontation, that’s why they use their coast guard. ‘Yong civilian agency nila and not the military armed or navy of China. I think it is not in the interest of any country, Pinky to actually have a confrontation between two battleships, between two warships, between our Navy and their Navy. Wala naman siguro sa interest ng sinuman o ‘yong mga karatig bansa natin na magkaroon ng escalation at mas malaking kaguluhan sa parteng ito ng mundo.
PW: Sir, quick follow-up. This is something new I’ve heard from you na gumawa na tayo ng structure, let’s build a structure in Ayungin Shoal, ano po. Now begs the question, ayaw nga ho ipadala ‘yung ating mga resupply mission doon po sa BRP Sierra Madre. How can we even begin to build a structure there when resupply missions become a problem, our ships are harassed and they use water cannons?
CHIZ: Well, anong gusto mong gawin natin, Pinky dahil hina-harass ‘yung ating mga supply ships ‘wag na natin supply-an ‘yung mga sundalo natin do’n? Ang gusto ba natin sundan, sumunod at sundin ang ninanais ng bansang Tsina na taliwas, hindi sang-ayon sa ating sariling paniniwala at desisyon pabor sa atin na sa atin ‘yang karagatang ‘yan, sa atin ‘yang mga islang ‘yan. Ika nga, kung magpapa-bully tayo ‘di wala na mangyayari pero kung tatayuan natin ‘yong bully madalas naman hindi naman tinototoo ng bully at madalas naman umaatras din ‘yong bully. At kung saka-sakali, balik natin sa China bakit kayo, nagpagawa din naman kayo bagaman sinasabi naming amin ‘yan. May ginawa ba kami? Kami naman ang magpapagawa sa sinasabi naming amin din dapat wala rin kayong gawin dahil wala din naman kaming gagawin din laban sa inyo kaugnay ng baseng ipinatayo ninyo.
PW: All right. China is saying we need to talk and we need to meet halfway. We need to take a short break, we’ll be right back. You’re watching The Source on CNN Philippines, I’m Pinky Webb. Our Source today, Senator Chiz Escudero. Senator, a couple of minutes left, ano po. Mayroon din pong suggestion or a proposal General Brawner was saying how about deploying militia forces from our reserve forces or even training our fisherfolk. What do you think of that?
CHIZ: Number one, Pinky, I don’t think the Chief-of-Staff should be speaking on the subject matter or anyone from the executive for that matter except for the President and or the DFA Secretary because this is a matter involving foreign relations. Parang ‘yong binanggit niya na ‘yong pag-water cannon parang tantamount to an act of war. Hindi dapat ganoon padalos-dalos o ganoon kabilis magbitaw ng salita ang sinumang opisyal sa Executive department dahil bina-bind nito ang Commander-in-Chief niya at ang Pangulo kaugnay sa polisiya natin sa lugar na ‘yan. Pangalawa, bakit tayo magti-train ng sibilyan, gusto ba noong mga mangingisda natin na ‘yon? Kung ‘yung Coast Guard nga nating sarili hindi kinakaya, militia pa at that will only militarize if at all the area which again is not in our interest. Before the break Pinky, you said gusto ng China makipag-usap. Gusto rin naman ng Pilipinas makipag-usap at anuman ang mangyari gaano kalala man ang kalabasan ng sitwasyon dapat palaging bukas ‘yong posiblidad at patuloy ang pakikipag-usap ng magkabilang bansa kaugnay sa issue na ito. Mas pipiliin pa rin natin dapat mapayapang solusyon sa problema kaysa pataasan tayo ng ihi, payabangan at sa dulo magkakahiyaan at magkakaputukan na lamang. Kahit sa pagitan ng bansang Ukraine at Russia ngayon na naggigiyera, bukas ‘yung puwang para mag-usap at makapag-usap. Hindi natin dapat alisin ‘yan sang-ayon sa Saligang-Batas pa rin, Pinky.
PW: Okay. Senator—
CHIZ: The Philippines renounces (inaudible) an instrument of foreign policy and promotes diplomatic peaceful and diplomatic ways to settle disputes with other countries.
PW: But you have the national, the task force on the West Philippine Sea ano po. There’s a spokesperson for DFA and spokesperson for the Philippine Coast Guard a spokesperson for the Armed Forces of the Philippines and for the National Security Council when there are press conferences such as that are you saying that kahit po sila should refrain from making statements on what is going on in the West Philippine Sea, Sir? Saying that just the DFA siguro and the President should be speaking about this?
CHIZ: If it is from the council, Pinky then yes. But if it is a separate conference, press conference for the Coast Gurad, separate press conference not coming out of a meeting by the council, separate conference by the Chief-of-Staff, a separate conference from by the DFA involving other matters and all of a sudden, a question is asked. Unless it is coming from the council, unless it is coming directly from the President, I think it should be very least avoided. In order to avoid any confusion and conflicting policies on the matter. Hiwalay Pinky, ang Judiciary, hiwalay Pinky ang Legislative branch ng ating gobyerno. Malayang makapagsalita ang sinumang mambabatas kaugnay sa bagay na ito pero hindi naman ‘yan bahagi ng foreign policy dahil ang papel ng Kongreso magratipika lamang ng mga treaty. Halimbawa na lamang, Pinky, sinasabing may nagpapanukalang i-boycott daw—
PW: Chinese goods.
CHIZ: —goods.
PW: And Chinese companies.
CHIZ: Well, pag-aralan natin ng husto ‘yon, Pinky, dahil ayon sa datos 17 percent ng ating exports, kabuuang exports ng Pilipinas napupunta sa China. Thirty-three percent ng ating ini-import sa buong mundo ay galing China. Kung sila ang mag-alboroto at magsabing hindi na naming tatanggapin ‘yong 17 percent niyo na pinapadala dito ng buong export ng Pilipinas, hindi na rin naming papadala sa inyo ‘yong 33 percent na inaangkat niyo galing dito ng kabuoang exports natin. Sa parte ng China, Pinky, wala pang 2 porsyento ang kanilang ine-export sa Pilipinas at wala pang 1 porsyento ang kanilang ini-import sa Pilipinas sa kabuuang importation nila. Kumbaga magkakamot lang ‘yan ng konti ng kamay at hindi naman sila maaapektuhan pero tayo tulad ng sinabi ni Congressman Salceda may epekto ito sa ating ekonomiya biruin mo one-third ng imports natin na pinagmumulan ng mas murang kagamitan at bilihin ay biglang mawawala. Ihiwalay natin, Pinky, ‘yung hindi natin pinagkakasunduan tulad ng West Philippine Sea at ‘wag nating hayaang maapektuhan ‘yon nung mga bagay-bagay na pinagkakasunduan natin na pantay naman ‘yung pagtrato, maayos ang relasyon kaugnay no’n at ‘wag nating idamay-damay lahat. Ika nga, let’s agree in what we can agree on and let’s set aside what we disagree then lets it not affect the things that we agree on whether it’s economic, cultural, educational. ‘Wag nating hayaan maapektuhan ng issue sa geography, issue sa territory ‘yung mga bagay na ito. Ganyan kalawak sana ang pag-iisip ng ating bansa at ng ating mga kababayan.
PW: Pag-usapan po natin ‘yung geography gaya ng ninyo because that call came from the Senate President himself, Senate President Migz Zubiri. I don’t have a lot of time, Sir, unfortunately ‘no ito lang po ‘yong sinabi ko po kanina na China says let’s meet halfway to address the issue. Ang tanong ko po what is “halfway”? Ang sinasabi po kasi nila ‘yung Ayungin kanila, ‘yong sinasabi po natin ‘yung Ayungin atin. Papaano ho kaya tayo magme-meet halfway? What are the possibilities?
CHIZ: Well, panukala lang naman ‘yong halfway, Pinky, dapat mag-usap para malaman ano ba ang depenisyon nila ng “halfway”, ano ba ang depenisyon natin ng “halfway” kung mayroon man. Papayag ba tayo o hindi at basta’t hindi nito maapektuhan anumang karapatan mayroon tayo sa arbitral ruling. Basta hindi nito maapektuhan at hindi natin binibitiwan anumang pagmamay-ari at soberenya natin diyan sa lugar na ‘yan at ganoon din sila. Anumang pagkakasunduan at terms of engagement sa mga panahong ito na hindi pa nase-settle ang bagay na ‘yan basta mapayapa dapat maging bukas ang Pilipinas basta’t ‘wag lang bitiwan anumang karapatan mayroon tayo diyan. Kaya nga ang panukala ko, Pinky, dapat may maghain ng petisyon sa Korte Suprema for recognition of foreign judgement, particular ‘yong arbitral ruling para mayroong batas sa pamamagitan ng Supreme Court decision na kumikilala na atin ‘yan upang walang pangulo, walang Kongreso na puwedeng magpasa ng taliwas na polisiya diyan sa arbitral ruling na bahagi na ng batas at umiiral na batas sa ating bansa.
PW: And I wonder what that has not been done although, of course, we recognize the ruling by the permanent court of arbitration to ask the Supreme Court to parang confirm this, affirm this ganoon ho ba, Senator Chiz?
CHIZ: Exactly. There is a specific rule, rules of court, Pinky, for the recognition of foreign judgement, (inaudible) ang tawag do’n upang sa gayon maging bahagi ‘yon ng common law, ika nga, dito sa ating bansa hindi man bahagi ng ating civil law o naisa batas na.
PW: Sorry, Sir. Quick question isa na lang po why don’t you senators do that? Hindi ho ba nag-file din naman kayo—
CHIZ: I’m sorry, Pinky.
PW: Why not the senators do that as a whole? You did file a resolution condemning the acts of China etcetera Sir. So, the Senate can come together as a whole and file this. Puwede ho ba ‘yon?
CHIZ: Ang mas tinitignan namin, Pinky, ay batas dahil dalawa ang pinagmumulan ng batas natin. Batas na ipinapasa ng Kongreso tsaka mga desisyon ng Korte Suprema na final and executory. Ang marahil ang sinabi ko na nitong mga nagdaang linggo, ang marahil na manguna diyan ay ang Solicitor General’s Office na party of interest. Siya ang nanguna niyan noong mga panahong nag-file tayo ng kaso sa arbitral court at marapat na dapat lamang siya din ‘yong magbigay ng pagkilala o humiling ng pagkilala d’yan sa arbitral ruling sa ating Korte Suprema gamit ang provisional rules of court natin sa recognition of foreign judgements
PW: Senator, I must have you again in another time. There are still a lot of issues specially taxes pero wala na pong oras. Senator Chiz Escudero, maraming salamat po sa inyong oras.
CHIZ: Maraming salamat, Pinky. Magandang umaga sa inyong lahat.